Dialogue Against the Jews – Petrus Alphonsi

Preface by Peter Alphonsus.

To the One and Eternal First, who has no beginning and no end, to the Almighty, the Creator of all things, who knows all things, who does all that he wills, who has placed man, endowed with reason and wisdom, above all animals, by which two virtues he may intelligently desire those things which are just, and flee those which are contrary to salvation [536D] , be honor and glory, and may his wonderful name be blessed forever and ever. Amen.

The composer of the following work said: The Almighty inspired us with His Spirit and directed us to the path of the right path, first removing the thin whiteness of the eyes and then the heavy veil of a corrupt soul. [537A] Then the barriers of the prophecies were opened to us, and their secrets were revealed, and we moved our minds to perceive their true meaning, and we lingered over it to explain it. Whence we considered both what is to be understood in them and what is to be believed from them, namely that there is one God, in a Trinity of persons, who neither precede each other in any time, nor are separated from each other by any division, whom Christians call the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and that blessed Mary, conceiving of the Holy Spirit, gave birth to Christ without male intercourse, generating a body animated, which was to be the dwelling place of the incomprehensible divinity. Therefore, one Christ, perfect in three substances, namely, body, soul, and divinity, is the same both God and man, and the fact that the Jews crucified him was by his own disposition and [537B] will, so that as he was the creator, he might become the redeemer of the whole holy Church, namely, of the faithful who preceded and followed, and died in body and was buried, and on the third day rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven, and is there with the Father, to come on the day of judgment, to judge the living and the dead, as the prophets spoke and foretold would happen. Therefore, when, by the impulse of divine mercy, I had reached such a high degree of this faith, I put off the cloak of falsehood, and was stripped of the tunic of iniquity, and was baptized in the see of the city of Ossinus, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, purified by the hands of the glorious and legitimate bishop of the same city, Stephen. At the hour of baptism, in addition to the things that have been mentioned, [537C] I believed in the blessed apostles and the holy Catholic Church. This was done in the year of the Lord one thousand one hundred and sixteen, in the forty-fourth year of my age, in the month of July, on the birthday of the apostles [538A] Peter and Paul. Wherefore, out of veneration and memory of the same apostle, I gave myself the name Peter. Now my spiritual father was Alphonsus , the glorious emperor of Spain, who received me from the sacred fountain, wherefore, adding his name to my aforesaid name, I gave myself the name Peter Alphonsus. And since it was known to the Jews who had known me before, and had proved me expert in the books of the prophets and the sayings of the doctors, and who had also a not great part of all the liberal arts, that I had received the law and faith of the Christians, and was one of them, some of them thought that I had not done this except because I had so cast away all shame that I had despised both God and the law. But others said that I had done it because I did not [538B]It was fitting that I had understood the words of the prophets and the law. Others imputed vain glory, and slandered that I had done this for the honor of the world, because I saw the Christian nation as superior to all others. I have therefore composed this little book, that all may know my intention, and hear the reason, in which I have placed the destruction of the credulity of all other nations first, and after this I have concluded that the Christian law is superior to all others. Finally, I have also set forth all the objections of the opponents of every Christian law, and have destroyed those that I have set forth, with reason and authority, as I think wise. But I have distinguished the whole book by dialogue, that the reader’s mind may be more ready to understand. In defending also the arguments of the Christians, I have put the name which I now bear, Christian: but in refuting the arguments of the adversary, I have put the name which I had before baptism, that is, Moses. The book is also divided into twelve titles, so that each reader may more quickly find in them what he desires.

The Dialogue Begins

Peter, surnamed Alphonsus, from Jews to Christians and Moses the Jew.

Peter : From my earliest childhood, therefore, a certain most perfect friend had clung to me, named Moses, who had been my companion and fellow-disciple from my earliest years. When word reached him that I had abandoned the law of my father and chosen the Christian faith, leaving his place of residence, he came to me in haste, on his very arrival bearing the countenance of a man indignant, and rebukingly greeted me in the manner not of a friend, but as of a stranger, and thus began: Alas, Peter Alphonsus! Much time has passed since I have been anxious to come to you, to see you, to speak with you, and to do so in common , but my affection has lacked effect until now, when I see you with a joyful countenance by the grace of God. Now, I beg you, reveal to me your intention, and explain to me the reason by which you either abandoned the old law or chose the new law. For I know well that you were once superior to all your peers in the writings of the prophets and in the words of our teachers, and that from childhood you were a commentator on the law, and that if any were an adversary, you offered him the shield of defense; that you preached to the Jews in the synagogues so that they would never depart from their faith, that you taught the conscientious, and that you troubled the learned for the greater good . But behold, I know not how I see myself changed, and alienated from the path of rectitude, which, as it seems to my mind, I consider to have been done by error. To whom I said: It is the custom of the common and ignorant, that if they see anyone doing anything contrary to their custom, although it remains right and most just, yet in their estimation and judgment, he incurs both the name and blame of injustice. But you, who were brought up in the cradle of philosophy, suckled at the breasts of philosophy, with what boldness can you accuse me, until you are able to prove whether what I have done is just or unjust?

Moses : Since two contrary things occur to my mind: one, because I believe that you, a prudent man, could not have departed from the law you held, unless you had truly known that which you have accepted was better; the other, because I consider the law which I hold and which you have abandoned to be better, therefore I also believe that what you have done is an error, and I do not know to which side I should rather acquiesce. Wherefore I ask you to drive away the scruple of this doubt from my mind, and let us both discuss in the field of alternate reason, until I arrive at the investigation of this matter, and be able to know whether your action is just or unjust.

Peter : It is human nature that, when the mind is disturbed in any way, the eye lacks discretion in distinguishing between truth and falsehood. Now, therefore, unless you remove all disturbance from your heart, so that, like the wise, we may praise what is just and reject what is unjust without contention, we shall by no means put an end to our work, and we shall be throwing words into vain. [539C]

Moses : I willingly accept this agreement, and I ask that you accept the same in yourself.

Peter : I certainly agree happily.

Moses : I beg you to do this also, if you please. But if you bring any authority from the Scriptures, you will do so according to the Hebrew truth. But if you do otherwise, you must acknowledge that I will not accept it. But even if I bring you some, according to what is with us, and you accept it as I wish, and you must in no way contradict what you acknowledge to be true.

Peter : And I certainly do not deny this, for I greatly desire to kill you with your own sword.

Moses : Furthermore, if anything should ever occur that seems to be outside the scope of the law, I beg you not to be displeased, but when the occasion demands it, I will endeavor to answer the questioner, and I want you to grant that by mutual reason I may sometimes ask, sometimes be permitted to answer, and sometimes even oppose, as the occasion may give me.

Peter : I grant it. Now you may ask questions, on whatever subject you wish to know, and with whatever intention.

Moses : Do you grant that Moses, the son of Amram, was a true prophet of the Israelite people, and that he was truly sent by God (Exod. 3), and that whatever he prophesied in the name of God he faithfully declared and said?

Peter : I certainly concede.

Moses : Do you also grant that all those who came after Moses came to confirm his law, and not to refute it in any way?

Peter : And this also I grant.

Moses : Nor do you deny that the law, which the Jews hold at present, and which they assert was written by Moses, remains the same in all things, as Moses wrote it.

Peter : How, I pray you, can I deny it, especially since the same law is found written among us, in the same words of Moses, translated by our teachers of old, in whom we place our faith, except in certain places, where, although the words are changed, the meaning is nevertheless the same?

Moses : How then do I see you have transgressed it, and strayed from its path?

Peter : It is not so, but now I retain his complete faith, [540B] as I ought, and I proceed with a straight step along his most upright paths.

Moses : From your words it is given to be understood that you conceive the right meaning from the words of the law and the prophets, but that the Jews, the worshippers of the same law, are alien to its right intention; hence in your judgment they seem to understand it wrongly.

Peter : You have well understood the meaning of my words.

Moses : Therefore, let me know in what you think the Jews erred in the explanation of the law, and you yourself understand better.

Peter : How I see them attending only to the surface of the law, and interpreting the letter not spiritually, but carnally, from which they have been deceived by a great error .

Moses : I do not sufficiently understand what you mean by these words, so I beg you to speak more clearly.

Peter : Do you not remember your teachers, who wrote your doctrine, to which your whole law, according to you, is based, how they assert that God has a body and form, and apply such things to his ineffable majesty that do not stand up to any reason? Nay, and they put forward such opinions about him, which seem to be nothing else than the words of children joking in schools, or of women gossiping in the streets. Likewise, explaining the law according to the capacity of your intellect, you hope to escape captivity in a way that cannot be done. Likewise, in escaping captivity [540D] you hope that a miracle will be performed so unusual that it will raise your dead, who will begin to inhabit the earth again as before. Likewise, you, being in captivity, I see that you do nothing but the least thing about all the precepts of the law, even according to your explanation. But the very thing you do pleases God and you believe to be acceptable, you trust that He will never blame you for what you omit, and you seem to yourself to have accomplished everything, which evidently occupies the greatest place of error. For there are very many other errors into which you have been thrown by unsound explanations of the law.

Moses : You are too deeply inveighing against our infamy, and you wish to oppress the Jewish nation. And the words are indeed few and light, but there is in them [541A] much and grave meaning. And if we wish to conclude the whole reason under one judgment, and to comprehend many under one title, since we ought to elucidate each one, we introduce obscurity by indiscriminately mixing them all together. Wherefore, if it seems good to you, let us assign individual titles to each of the propositions of the reason, so that, having discussed each alternate reason of the discourse, we may approach the next in order, and thus impose a fitting term on our work.

Peter : Let what you have said well be perfected, and what you are worthily advising be completed. Therefore, having attached each sentence its title, inquire first about what you wish, since I am ready to answer.

First title.

He showed that the Jews believed the words of the prophets. They understand it carnally, and they explain it falsely.

Moses : First, let us thus establish a title, which will contain the reasons by which you attack us and our teachers, namely, that we ascribe body and form to God, and that we attribute to his nature such things as are repugnant to the truth of reason. Let us therefore diligently discuss this matter, until we arrive at its investigation by reason and argument.

Peter : I commend what has been said.

Moses : First of all, therefore, I want you to show me where our teachers said that God has a body and form, and how they spoke on this matter.

Peter : If you wish to know where it is written, in the first part of your doctrine, which is called the blessings. If, therefore, you wish to know how they said that God [541C] has a head and arms, and that he wears a box tied with a strap in his bosom, and the knot of that strap is fastened from the back of his head under his brain, and that inside the box there are four cards containing the praises of the Jews, and at the top of his left arm he wears another box, tied in a similar way with a strap, and there is a card containing all the praises that are said to be written in the four aforesaid places. Do you grant that all these things are written in this way in the place I have mentioned?

Moses : I cannot deny what is evident.

Peter : What authority, I ask, do they have over this matter?

Moses : They draw their authority from the box which he carries in his girdle, and from the knot of the thong, from that place where the Lord said to Moses: You shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen (Exod. XXXIII) . For then Moses saw the knot of the thong. But the knot itself must be of some box. But the authority of that which he carries in his arm is given by Isaiah, who says: The Lord has sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength (Isa. LXII) . For by the arm of strength he means to understand the left hand, in which the power of that box is contained.

Peter : You have brought me back to my memory. For I remember that I have already read this passage, but this authority confers no patronage on you. For since the law states that God said to Moses: You shall see my back , and since it is clear that God cannot lie, [542A] this was done afterwards, although Scripture is silent, let us not doubt, yet the law nowhere mentions that Moses saw anything in his back. How then do you say that he saw the knot of the thong, which can hardly be said without laughter? Likewise, since by the back not only the neck, but also any part of the body can be more conveniently understood, this that you assert that he saw his neck, is not proved by reason or the authority of the law, but by will alone.

Moses : Our teachers say that by the back of the neck should be understood.

Peter : According to your foolish series of explanations, which lack the help of both Scripture and reason, I am willing to proceed. For while I grant that God has a neck, which seems and is a sin to a wise man, [542B] it could still be that Moses saw nothing in him except a neck. Or if we imagine that he saw something else, he could have seen a cap or a knot of a strap, namely, that crown which you say an angel named Mithraton places on the head of God each day.

Moses : Our teachers certainly maintain that what he saw was the knot of the strap: and therefore they show that God made Moses’ neck erect, that he might see the knot of the strap.

Peter : That it is so that we may concede to your assertions for your destruction. For if we lie that we saw Moses with that crown knot, when he did not see his face at all, how did he approve of God wearing the box on the front of his head? [542C]

Moses : The doctors understood that Moses saw the knotted cord, and the box in which it was tied was on the head of God.

Peter : This understanding is not entirely sound, that we say that God carries something; yet that strap could have been tied with a cymbal, or some bell, or some precious gem, or something of the kind. Nevertheless, in order to remove all your foolish answers, I will grant that it is as you wish and say. But this being granted, how, I pray you, could Moses understand that the papers were contained within, much less say that he knew what was written in them? But what is most worthy of admiration above all this, is that in that paper, as you believe, nothing else is written, except verses which Moses, long after his death, when teaching the Israelitish people, published of his own accord praising them, and after many years, Solomon, worshipping God , composed of their praise; there is no reason why it should be believed that it was written in the head of God.

Moses : What Moses did not see with his eyes, he knew by the revelation of the Holy Spirit. But I confess that I have no reason for the writings on paper.

Peter : Glory to God. For a moment you have been lacking in your answer to foolishness. Likewise, if we grant that Moses saw some of these things, and knew some by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, since neither Moses himself ever left anything written, nor did any prophet after him reveal it, how was the mystery of so secret a matter revealed to your teachers? [543A]

Moses : Through the successors of the ancients, it finally reached the knowledge of our teachers.

Peter : Since your argument deviates to such an unreasonable conclusion, you will be allowed to confirm every lie by the successions of the ancients. However, it is very unworthy to bear, because you add to your teachers what they perhaps do not want, since they themselves testify that they did not have this from the ancients’ report through Moses, but they themselves comment on such things in the explanation of the verses.

Moses : I answered not on the grounds of right, but on the occasion of my flight.

Peter : Therefore, holding the truth, let us avoid vanity, since at the beginning of reason we both decided so.

Moses : I judge it worthy. [543B]

Peter : Tell me, please, do you know how much this narrative is verified by reason, besides the fact that it has long been established by no authority?

Moses : I see indeed in both cases the destruction of authority. But now I demand of you that you show it by the reason of nature.

Peter : You contend that God has a head, arms, and the entire form of his body. But if this is the case, then you must admit that God consists of the dimensions of length and height. But if it is enclosed by these three dimensions, it is terminated by six parts of the body, which is inconvenient, as will be shown in its proper place. But about the strap that you say he has on his head, I propose two things to you. For your strap is either from himself or from somewhere else. If it is from himself, then God is already separated from himself; but if it is from somewhere else, then it is either the Creator or a creature. If therefore there is a Creator, then there are two creators; if there is a creature, then some creature is greater in some part than the Creator, which is inconvenient. Also, I ask: Does he carry that which he carries on his head or arm by any necessity, or without necessity? If he carries it by necessity, then the Creator needs the creature, which is another thing that is inconvenient. Now therefore you can clearly recognize what I showed you by the reason you postulated, namely, that you believe about the strap how vile it is.

Moses : I have. [543D]

Peter : Again, your teachers in the book of doctrines assert that God is only in the west, confirming it with the authority of Ezra, who says: The host of heaven supplicates to you (II Esdras 9) . Explaining this, that when all the stars fall in the west, then the host of heaven supplicates to God, and since this supplication of the stars takes place in the west, therefore they assert that God is in the west. This which I say is their opinion. Who, although they are alien to the name of God, if they recognized at least the figure of the world, would not feel so unworthy of God.

Moses : I would like to show you, if you please, how it can be understood from this word that they did not recognize the shape of the world.

Peter : For we do not call the east except that place where the star first appears, nor the west except where it is withdrawn from our sight.

Moses : Now I beg you to show me the exact location of the east and the west, and to discuss the knowledge of this matter in detail.

Peter : Just as you asked that this thing be shown to you subtly, it behooves you also to look at it with a subtle eye. Consider this in this way. Stand in whatever place you like, and from there direct a straight line to the east. When you reach a place beyond which you cannot stretch your sight, know that that place is east for you. In the same way, if you direct a straight line to the west from the place where you are standing, when you reach such a place as to set a limit to your sight, determine for yourself the place of the west .

Moses : Now I desire to be shown the hour of the right sunrise and the hour of the right sunset.

Peter : When a star rises, extend the aforesaid line to the place of the star itself, and fix a line in the center of the star itself, so that half of it appears above the earth, and half is still hidden, and you will call the hour of the star itself the rising. When therefore the sun begins to rise above the earth in such a way, that hour is the true rising of the day among astrologers. In the same way, if a star rises in the west, directing the aforesaid line to that part of the west, and fixing the top of the line in the center of the star, so that half of it stands above the earth, and half under the earth, you will call that hour sunset. And when the sun sets in such a way, that hour is the true setting of the day and the beginning of the night among astrologers.

Moses : From your reasoning the following conclusion follows, that although the eastern part of the world is the same for all, yet the place of the east is not the same for all. Likewise, since the western part is not the same for all, neither is the hour of sunrise the same for us and for other nations, nor is the hour of sunset the same for us and other nations, but according to the variety of places on earth in longitude, the place of the east and the west, and the hour of sunrise and sunset, vary.

Peter : I am glad that you grasp the truth of the matter.

Moses : Again, I beg you, speak more clearly, and by some simile show so subtle a thing.

Peter : Let us therefore place the sun in the first degree of Aries [544D] and in the first point of degrees, and let us say that it has just begun to rise in the city of Aren, which is situated in the first of the seven climes of the earth, having ninety degrees to the east, and as many to the west, having also ninety degrees to the north pole, and as many to the south. When, I say, the sun has begun to rise in this city, what hour will it be in that city which is sixty degrees distant from the west of the city of Aren?

Moses : According to what I found written in the books of the astrologers, two hours still remain from the previous night.

Peter : When, then, the sun sets on the city of Aren, what hour will it be for the aforementioned city?

Moses : Similarly, two hours remain in the day. [545A]

Peter : But when the sun begins to rise in that city, what time is it now in the city of Aren?

Moses : After two hours have passed, the third hour begins.

Peter : And when the sun has set on that city, at what hour will it be Aren for the city?

Moses : It is now two hours past midnight.

Peter : If, therefore, you draw a straight line from the city of Aren, and bring one summit to the east and the other to the west, and do the same in another city, extending from it a straight line, one summit of which reaches to the east and the other to the west, will, I ask, the limits of both lines be able to meet at the same time on both sides?

Moses : Not at all, but as far as the cities themselves are from each other, so far will the tops of the lines be on each side, namely thirty degrees. [545B]

Peter : Now it is most clearly evident to you that the places of east and west, and the hours of sunrise and sunset, are not the same for everyone, but vary according to the various longitudes of the earth.

Moses : I finally understand well.

Peter : Likewise, when the sun rises in the city of Aren, at the same hour, at the other city that we have mentioned, a line should be stretched from the east of the same city to the west of the same city, which points in the sky will touch the summit of both of its summits?

Moses : Indeed, that summit which faces east will attain the first point of the first degree of Pisces, but that which is directed west will strike the first point of the first degree of Virgo. [545C]

Peter : Again, if, with the sun setting over the city of Aren, we extend a line towards the sky on both sides near the other city in the manner we have described, what parts of the sky will each of its summits touch?

Moses : Which tends to the east, meets the first point of the first degree of Virgo; but which to the west meets the first point of the first degree of Pisces.

Peter : But again, if we draw lines from the sun rising in that city, at the city of Aren, to the east of the same, and westward, as far as the sky itself, what part of the sky will each peak touch?

Moses : Whichever touches the east will strike the first particle of the first degree of Taurus; but which touches the west will strike the first point of the first degree of Scorpio. [545D]

Peter : But if, with the sun setting over that city, we draw the aforesaid line of the city of Aren in the aforesaid manner to the cardinal points of the sky, what parts of the same sky will each peak touch?

Moses : The eastern summit will coincide with the beginning of the first degree of Scorpio, while the western summit will coincide with the beginning of the first degree of Taurus.

Peter : Now you can see that the degree of the sign which is in the east when the sun appears to the city of Aren is not the same as that which appears at the same hour to another city. Similarly, the degree which is in the west when the sun sets in Aren is not the same as that which appears at the same hour to another city. And so it happens to all cities , according as one is distant from another in longitude.

Moses : I understand everything clearly.

Peter : Nor is that particle of the sky which appears today at sunrise in any place on earth in the east the same as that which will appear tomorrow at the same hour in the same place on earth.

Moses : And this is clearly evident.

Peter : This variation of degrees in the sky occurs daily, just as the sun itself constantly varies by the same degrees.

Moses : I am unable to deny what reason shows.

Peter : Since it is so, as we have said, it is necessary to be clear from reason, and in the whole space of the earth the places of the east and the west are not equal, nor the hours of rising and setting the same. Whence it necessarily follows that the stars which set for some rise for others at the same hour, nor is the place of the east and the west certain in the whole sphere of heaven, but varies daily by various degrees, much less must it be believed that the change of the east and the west happens to celestial creatures, to whom no darkness ever intervenes, but the brightness of the eternal unfailing light radiates, as the prophet David says: For darkness shall not be dark from thee, and the night shall shine as the day: as the darkness thereof so shall the light thereof be (Ps. 38) ; and Daniel says: He revealeth the deep and hidden things, and knoweth what is set in darkness, and light shall be with him for ever (Dan. 2) . Since no ascent or descent in the sky can be a local change, it is therefore very clear to everyone [546C] that there is neither east nor west in the sky. This having been proven, the folly of those who say that the west is God’s place is evident, where the stars pray to God.

Moses : Although I cannot be refuted by obvious arguments, I would nevertheless like to be shown, if you please, how the longitudes of cities distant from each other can be proven or known, so that we may better understand the differences in the hours appearing over them at the same time.

Peter : Let us therefore place the sun at the first point of Aries, and let the eclipse of the sun begin to occur at the city of Aren, at the first point of the seventh hour of the day the first degree of Cancer will certainly be at the same hour in the east of Aren itself. But if you then desire to know at what hour [546D] the same eclipse will begin to occur at another city than the one we have mentioned, if you look carefully, you will find that at the first point of the fifth hour it will begin to occur there, and at the same moment the first point of Gemini will appear in the east of that city, from which it is undoubtedly clear that there are thirty degrees of longitude between the two cities. And in this way it is indeed found by astrologers how much longitude there is between two cities.

Moses : Removing the veil of great blindness from my breast, you have most clearly poured out the lamp of truth, for which a worthy reward may be recompensed to you by God. But since I remember that you said above that Aren was a city situated in the middle of the celestial hemisphere, so that it was equally distant from all parts, and was placed in the first of the seven climes , I want you to show me the description of this location most clearly, so that I may seem to stand in the same city. For when you say that Aren was situated in the middle of the earth, you seem to mean that the surface of the earth itself is flat, but from the reason for the east and west given above you would have meant that the earth has a spherical roundness. Now everything round lacks a beginning and an end, but wherever you seek a beginning or a limit, there you will undoubtedly find the middle.

Peter : Consider, then, that Aren is in such a place on the terrestrial sphere that it is equally distant from both the north and south poles, and that the two first points of Aries and Libra pass through its middle daily. It will therefore have ninety [547B] degrees to each pole, and thus Aren will be in the first part of the first climate, as regards longitude.

Moses : From your words it is gathered that the entire habitable part of the earth consists of only one part. Therefore I want to know what that is.

Peter : From the middle of the earth to the northern part.

Moses : I desire this to be shown to me visibly by a geometric figure, since I do not doubt that different nations have held different opinions on this matter from the writings of books. They also divide the earth into five zones, the middle of which they say is scorched by the heat of the sun, and therefore uninhabitable, and the two extreme zones, which are the most remote from the sun, they also prove to be uninhabitable due to the immensity of the cold, but the two middle zones, tempered by the heat of the sun and the cold of the others, they claim to be the only habitable zones.

Peter : This opinion is an obstacle to the effect. For we prove by sight that Ares is situated in the middle of the earth, and that the beginning of Aries and Libra is a straight line running over it, and that the air there is most temperate, so that spring, summer, autumn, and winter are always almost equal in time, and that there are aromatic species of beautiful color and honey-like flavor. The bodies of men also are not too lean or fat there, but are beautiful with a moderate discretion of juice. The temperature of the season also makes the bodies of men and cattle harmonious with each other, because they are powerful in ineffable wisdom and natural justice. How then can anyone [547D] presume, other than to say, that a place over which the sun passes in a straight line is uninhabitable? Rather, the entire habitable space of the earth exists continuously from the aforesaid place to the northern globe, which the ancients divided into seven parts, which they called seven climates, according to the number of the seven planets. The first of these is in the middle line, where the city of Aren was founded, the seventh, the northernmost part of the globe, holds the extreme part, and the rest occupy the middle space. There is no place uninhabitable, except where either the dryness of many sands with little water, or the roughness of the mountains does not allow the burden of the plow. But all these things are shown to the eye by the figure: [548A]

[548B] showing, you have satisfied my desire. I therefore ask you to show me why either that part of the land which is beyond Aren to the south is not inhabited, as that which is on this side to the north, so that this Aren is in the middle of a habitable region, or why that part which is beyond is not habitable, and that which is on this side towards the north is uninhabitable.

Peter : Because the center of the sun’s circle is outside the center of the earth’s circle on the northern side, whence [548C] when the sun descends to the six signs of the meridian, which are from Libra to Aries, because it is then closer to the earth, the proximity of the heat scorches the earth, rendering it barren and completely sterile of all things, and therefore it exists uninhabitable. Therefore from the first climate to the north, the space distinguished by the seven climates remained habitable. But whatever from the seventh climate, when the sun descends from there to the six signs of the meridian, remains devoid of all heat and abounds in an excess of rain, clouds and cold, whence also all living things are deprived of habitation. But how the center of the sun’s circle is outside the center of the earth’s circle on the northern side, is clearly demonstrated by the following description: [548D]

[549A] Moses : I thank you for your brief but lucid explanation of a matter hitherto unknown to me, and I see that it has been a satisfactory answer to those who hold somewhat different views about the division of the earth.

Peter : Having completed the present discourse by the will of God, I would like to return to my purpose.

Moses : I think it is worthy.

Peter : Your teachers, in the third book of the Doctrine, assert that God is in a place bounded by six parts, affirming this testimony of Daniel who says: When I went out, behold, the prince of the Greeks came in (Dan. X) . For they conceive from this that God is in such a place, where there is an entrance and an exit. But if this is so, it is clear that He exists in a place bounded by six parts. But if He is circumscribed by a place bounded by six parts, then some place is empty of God. But if He is, [549B] how does He know what is happening in another place where He is not, or how does He work in it?

Moses : For he can have such wisdom and will that he both knows through wisdom and acts through will what is elsewhere.

Peter : I want you to answer me, then, whether that wisdom and will are in him and with him always, or outside him, and so also without him. For if you say that they are in him, and not outside him, the same will come of them as of him, because they will not be in every place. How then can he know what is or works elsewhere? But if you say that they are outside him and fill every place, then they are different from him. For they know something that he does not know, and they work by themselves [549C] that he does not work. Therefore they are creative, and the world does not need God.

Moses : They can indeed be in it, and shine into every place by knowing and working, just as the sun, when it stands in one place, yet spreads its rays everywhere, warming and illuminating.

Peter : If this is so, it follows that that wisdom and will do not exist equally everywhere. For whatever is thus diffused does not have the same force in the end as in its beginning, which is least fitting for God. But since you dare to impose a limit on God, would that you would at least believe Him to be simple and not attribute bodily accidents to Him!

Moses : How do you tell us to believe this?

Peter : You say that he is angry every day [549D] once a day, bringing into the midst the testimony of David, who says: The strong man is angry daily (Ps. 7) . You also assert that he is angry at the first hour of the day, saying that the cause of this anger is that at that hour the kings of iniquity rise up, put on diadems, and worship the sun. Do you see how absurd this saying is and how foolish are those who have uttered these things, since they are completely ignorant of the discernment of anger, which if they knew, they would not think this of God.

Moses : What then do you think anger is?

Peter : Anger is when, on hearing something that displeases, red anger, that is, bile boils, and is spread over the liver, and mixed with the blood. From this, indeed, a man becomes hot, and his face turns pale. But this [550A] does not belong to any thing except that which is composed of the four elements. But God is not subject to such features.

Moses : I cannot contradict the truth.

Peter : This is no less abhorrent than that which they say he is angry about such a thing, for which he cannot avenge himself. But if he could, his anger would certainly be appeased. They say moreover that no one ever knows the exact hour in which he is angry, except Balaam the son of Beor. But in this word you contradict yourselves, since on the one hand Moses calls him a soothsayer (Num. 22) , you also call him unjust, but on the other hand you indicate that he is more prudent than Moses, because he knew the exact hour which was hidden from Moses. And although this was said with great admiration, it is [550B] nevertheless pales in comparison with the greater folly by which you say that the rooster, an irrational animal, knows the exact hour every day. Do you admit that they said all these things in this way?

Moses : Even if I wanted to, I couldn’t deny it.

Peter : Nor is this enough for them to say of God, but he also weeps once a day every day, and they say that two tears coming from his eyes fall into a great sea, and they affirm that these are the brightness which seems to fall from the stars at night. But this argument shows that God is composed of four elements. For tears are not made except from the abundance of moisture descending from the head. If this is so, then the elements are the matter of God. But all matter is a prior and simpler form . Therefore these are also prior and simpler to God, which is wrong to believe. Therefore if God is such as you say he is, since he neither enjoys food nor drink, and sheds two tears from himself every day, it is necessary that he should decrease, unless perhaps he drinks continually from the waters which are above the sky. It is also gathered from their words that they do not know what that brightness is.

Moses : I long to know what you think of that brilliance.

Peter : A certain smoky vapor rises from the earth, very dry, from where it passes through the place of the clouds, arriving at a place where there is not much heat, since it is removed from the movement of the firmament. When it arrives there, and already a great deal has gathered in one place, it is gradually burned by the heat of that place, although small, and being burned, it vanishes, and this is what we see circulating through the air .

Moses : Since through you I am continually becoming more learned, I give thanks without undeserved ceasing.

Peter : Also the weeping of him whom they unworthily attribute to God, they say was the cause of the captivity of the Jews; but also because of his pain they assert that he roared three times a day like a lion, and because of that he stamped the heavens with his feet like those treading in a winepress, and also made a certain whispering sound like a dove, and at each time shook his head, and said in a voice of sorrow: Woe is me, woe is me! Why have I reduced my house to a wilderness, and burned my temple, and carried my children among the nations? Woe to the father who carried away [551A] his children! and woe to the children who were carried away from their father’s table! They also say that one of your teachers heard this voice in a certain noisy place. Moreover, because he knocked his feet together like one in labor, and clapped his hands like one in pain, and because he prayed daily that his mercy might be over his anger, and that he might walk in mercy among his people. Tell me, O Moses, when God prays, whom, I pray, does he worship? Himself or another? If he worships another, he whom he worships is more powerful than he. If he worships himself, he is either powerful in that for which he prays, or impotent. If he is impotent, he worships himself in vain; but if he is powerful, he either wants that for which he prays, or does not want it. If he does not want it, he prays for nothing. But if he wants it, it is not necessary to pray. Do you see then, O Moses, how completely alien this nation [551B] is from divine knowledge? But if it is true that God weeps for you, like a lion roaring, stamping the heavens with his feet, moaning like a dove, shaking his head, and crying out in great pain, “Alas for me,” and that he himself, moreover, stumbles his feet in pain, claps his hands, and prays daily that he may have mercy on you, what then prevents your captivity from being freed? Does this delay proceed from you or from him? For thus you show him to be less powerful in fulfilling his will, when you make him weep in a childish manner, when he is willing and unable to accomplish something. If therefore he is impotent now, tell me whether he will have power in the future or not? If he ever will have it, then both your and his pain will be without end, and your prayer is empty, and there is no hope. If [551C] he will be able to have it, either he has not yet had it, but will have it at a fixed and certain time when, when he will have it, he will free you from captivity, or he has already had it, but has lost it through the intervention of certain accidents, which, when removed again at some time, he has recovered it and will lead you out of captivity. If he will have it at a certain time, it remains for you to say what it is that now prevents him from having it, namely whether you attribute this to the shortness of his years, or to the weakness of his limbs, or to the obstacle of some thing from which he cannot be defended. But to believe this about God is wrong. For we read in the sacred Scriptures, in which you and we believe, that God in ancient times performed greater miracles than if he had freed you from captivity, as when he struck Egypt with ten plagues (Exod. VII, VIII), and from there He brought you out with a strong hand, and divided the Red Sea, into which He drowned Pharaoh and his army (Exod. XIV) , He also fed the quails from heaven in the wilderness (Ps. 77; Exod. XVI; Num. XI) , He also made the waters of the Jordan like a mountain in one place (Joshua III) , He fixed the sun and the moon by the prayers of Joshua (Joshua X) , He caused one hundred and eighty-five thousand of the army of Sennacherib to be killed in one night (4 Kings XIX; Eccl. XLVIII) . In the days of Hezekiah He commanded the sun to return fifteen degrees (4 Kings XX) . He delivered Daniel from the lions’ den (Dan. XVI) . He delivered Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah from the fire (Dan. III), and you from the captivity of Babylon (1 Esdras VII) , and He performed many other miracles which it is too long to enumerate. Therefore you cannot say that He was not powerful in ancient days. But if you grant that he was indeed powerful, as is right, but you say that he was rendered powerless by the intervention of other accidents, after the disappearance of which you believe that he will recover his power, you must necessarily admit one of these; those accidents either originated from him and in him; as an accidental infirmity restrains a man from the effect of his will until he recovers; or they were inflicted on him by another, as captivity inflicted on any man by a king deprives him of the power of his will until he is free. But if you say that they originated from him and in him, then you are saying that God has a body, which is susceptible to contrary things, which is not fitting to think of God. But if you say that [552B] it was inflicted on him by another, you are showing that he who inflicted it is more powerful than God, which is no less improper. But if you say that you yourselves are the cause of your captivity, as if you were in a better condition in captivity than you were in freedom, it is clear to everyone that it is a lie, because captivity is never comparable to freedom. But if you do not delay your freedom with this intention, but he wants to free you, and you resist his will through stubbornness, namely, that because he has cast you into captivity, you will on the contrary continue in that captivity longer than he wishes, he should certainly satisfy your will, and not constantly depress himself with so much sorrow, or it would be fitting for you to spare him and not to make him so sad. But this cannot stand at all, since you pray to him every day to rescue you from captivity. Therefore I beg you, Moses, to exclude from my heart the ramblings of so great a circuit.

Moses : None of these things which you have enumerated hinder our captivity, but we confess that God has always been and is omnipotent, nor do we deny that we wish to escape captivity, but we say that God has set a certain term for our captivity, and until that time which He has appointed, sworn, and confirmed arrives, we can in no way be freed.

Peter : In this word you attribute ignorance to God when you say that he decreed and swore such a thing, that he afterwards repents of having sworn and confirmed it, a sign of which is that he is continually afflicted for you in so many ways, which if he had known beforehand, he would not have decreed beforehand. If [552D] then he was a believer according to you. Since this is established with you, you should certainly indulge him, and not disturb him with constant prayers, for the more frequently you pray, the more you renew his sorrow, and the more you do not disturb him by ceasing to pray, the more you allow him to be consoled. But tell me, I pray you, O Moses, tell me, should anyone of this kind believe the teachers, and accommodate their faith to their treatises?

Moses : Since they themselves confirm their sayings with the authority of the prophets, why do you so severely attack them and say nothing about the prophets? Do you not know that the prophets said that God has a head, eyes, nostrils, hands, arms, and all the features of his body? [553A] They also said that he is angry every day, and that he roars like a lion, and many other things which are proved by their authority.

Peter : The sayings of the prophets are obscure, and not sufficiently clear to all. For this reason also when we find in the prophets such things which, if we take them according to the letter, we deviate from the path of reason, we interpret them allegorically, in order to bring them back to the path of rectitude. For necessity compels us to act thus, because otherwise the reason of the letter cannot stand. But your teachers did not know God, as they should, and therefore, interpreting the sayings of the prophets superficially, they erred in him. Therefore, for this reason and for many similar reasons, I said above that I understand the sayings of the prophets, as sound sense demands. [553B]

Moses : Now I want to show you a place which we must understand allegorically, because it cannot stand when explained literally, so that what you say may be clear to be true.

Peter : What you seek I will show you. For Moses said to Pharaoh: The locusts shall cover the eyes of the whole earth (Exod. 10) . For has the earth an eye? Likewise, the same says of the sons of Korah: The earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up (Num. 16) . But has the earth a mouth? Likewise, in the book of Judges Gaal said to Zebul: Behold, a people has come down from the navel of the earth (Judges 9) . But has the earth a navel? Again Isaiah says: We have heard praises from the wing of the earth (Isa. 24) . Has the earth a wing? David also says: The fields shall rejoice, and all that is in them [553C] (Ps. 95) . Likewise the same: The rivers shall clap their hands, the mountains shall be glad (Ps. 97) . But can the fields rejoice, the rivers have hands, or the mountains be glad? Solomon also says: The birds of the air shall carry your word, and he that has wings shall declare your judgment (Ecclesiastes 10) . Can a bird speak a word, or can a bird that has wings declare something? The prophet Habakkuk also says: A stone shall cry out of the wall, and the wood that is in the joints of the buildings shall answer (Habakkuk 2) . Can a stone cry out, or a wood answer?

Moses : I admit that what you say is indeed true, that in most places an allegorical sense is necessary, yet what the prophets said about the bodily features of God [553D] , if explained according to the letter, I do not know why you would say it is absurd.

Peter : The bodily accidents which you attribute to God are only consistent with a bodily substance and an imaginary thing. But it is unbecoming to believe that God is of this kind. Therefore it is not fitting to interpret what has been said about God as corporeal according to the letter alone. For if anyone thinks this, he is contrary to both Scripture and reason.

Moses : I want you to show why anyone who takes it this way is contrary to Scripture.

Peter : Since we say that God has any image or likeness, we contradict many of the authorities of the prophets. For Moses says to the children of [554A] Israel: Take heed to yourselves. You saw no likeness on the day that the Lord spoke to you in Horeb from the midst of the fire, lest you be deceived and make for yourselves a graven image or likeness of male or female, the likeness of any beast that is on the earth, or of any bird that flies under the heaven, or of any creeping thing that moves on the earth, or of any fish that is in the waters under the earth (Deut. 4) . And when he had forbidden them to liken God to composite bodies, fearing also that they might conform him to simple bodies, he added: Lest perhaps you lift up your eyes to heaven, and see the sun and the moon, and all the stars of heaven, and be deceived and worship them, and serve them, which the Lord God has created for all the nations under heaven (ibid.) . Nor do you think that Moses, who prayed to the people in these words, was piously afraid that they would worship the figures or images of the aforementioned bodies, since they did not doubt that they were creatures, but rather he feared that they would believe that God had the image of one of these, and therefore worship such likenesses made in his place.

Moses : This sentence is very subtle, and not accessible to everyone’s sense, so something more explicit is still necessary for me.

Peter : The prophet Isaiah says: To whom have you likened me, and made me equal, says the Holy One? (Isa. XL.) And again: To whom have you likened God, or what image will you set up for him? (Ibid.) And again: To whom have you likened and made equal and compared me, and made him like? (Ibid.) David’s words also prove that God is not local, so that by this they consequently indicate that he is not the same corporeal [554C] . For he says: Whither shall I go from thy spirit, and whither shall I flee from thy face? If I ascend into heaven, thou art there; if I descend into hell, thou art there. If I take my wings at dawn, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, for even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me (Ps. 138) . Solomon also, feeling the same, says: Shall it be thought then that God truly dwells upon the earth? For if heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee, how much less this house which I have built? (2 Chron. 2.) And elsewhere: The eyes of the Lord are in every place beholding the good and the evil (2 Chron. 16) . And Jeremiah: Can a man hide himself in secret places, and I will not see him, saith the Lord? Do I not fill heaven and earth, saith the Lord? (Jer. 23.) [554D] Now you can clearly observe that if, saying that God has a body and all the members of the body, we expound the Scriptures by whose authority we wish to prove this, to the surface, we contradict all the above-mentioned testimonies.

Moses : Because I see how much my sense is contrary to Scripture, and how much it deviates from reason, I desire to hear according to the promise.

Peter : In the palace of great reason we shall lie down, and we shall only spread out the flowers of the palace itself, that we may sit down to reason more delightfully therein. And those opinions will be to us certain steps towards proving that God exists, and towards knowing what He is. For we must first prove that God exists, and afterwards show that there is nothing like Him . For a certain part of men both deny that God exists, and affirm that the world has existed from eternity and without a Creator. Which necessity compels us to first show that there is a God who created the world.

Moses : Why did you not do this in the aforementioned Scriptures, so as to first show that God exists?

Peter : Those who accommodate faith to Scripture do not deny that God exists, and therefore it was not necessary to prove this to those who believe Scripture, but only to those who believe no scripture.

Moses : Since you do not want to prove the existence of God through the Scriptures, and since He is not comprehensible by any bodily sense, it is of great help to me to hear by what philosophical reasoning it can be proved. [555B]

Peter : If I show that the world with all that is in it was created, then I will necessarily conclude that God, who is interpreted as Creator, is.

Moses : And how will you be able to prove this?

Peter : To know is said in three ways. For it is one thing that something is perceived by the bodily sense, another that is known only by necessary reason, another that is found by the similarity of other things. That which is perceived by some sense cannot be proved by any other argument, as someone blind from birth cannot distinguish the varieties of colors in any other way than by hearing alone, and hearing does not entirely satisfy his mind, and so of the other bodily senses. But that which is known by necessary reason is such as when we say that a body can move and not stand still at the same [555C] moment; or that it is and is not able to truly predicate of any thing. But that which is perceived by similarity is such as that wherever you hear a voice, there you understand that there is something vocal, although you do not see it at all, or whenever you see smoke anywhere, there you know that there is fire, even if you do not see it. In the same way, if we see a made vessel, we know for certain that there was some maker of it (Rom. 1) , even though we do not see it. Therefore we must prove that the world was created first, so that it is clear that there was some Creator of it. And when we have proved the Creator of the world, we will consequently show by reason that the Creator himself has no resemblance. [555D]

Moses : It is fitting that I should be blessed by your words, from which I believe I shall receive so much fruit. Therefore, fulfill your promise, and now spread the palace with the flowers you spoke of.

Peter : In this, however, all philosophers agree that the beginning of things is perfect wisdom, the excellent light, the substance of substances, the proof of all things; after this is the world of the universal soul, and after that matter. Now these two, namely the universal soul and matter, are simple, and the first of all creatures, and the origin and cause of all composite things, from which the firmament was gradually made, with all the forms and images which it possesses.

Moses : From your words it is given to understand that the firmament [556A], together with all that is in it, is composite. But in many places I found it written that whatever is below the circle of the moon is composite, but whatever is above it is simple.

Peter : The firmament is indeed composite with all that it contains in reality, but with respect to those things which lie beneath the circle of the moon it is called simple. For it is so in all things that something is called composite with respect to that from which it is made, but with respect to that which is made of it, simple. In the same way whatever is above the moon is simple with respect to those things which are below the moon, because they are made of it. But with respect to matter it is composite, because it is made of it.

Moses : I wish to understand more clearly how the firmament, since it is one substance, is called composite .

Peter : Every body is composite, but every composite is either substantial or partial: substantial, as when one substance is joined to another; partial, when parts of one substance are joined. But substance is joined, as the head is composed of bones, flesh, and veins joined together, as a door is composed of wood and iron. Thus everything that is made up of the conjunction of diverse substances is called substantial composite. But the composition of a partial composite is more subtle. Which is clear from this, that every body, which has length, breadth, and height, is not joined to a different body, but is composed of the parts of its substance alone , as if many parts of silver were joined together, until they made something heavy and solid. But this composite is simpler than the above. But that which is called simple from the whole, which is devoid of both these compositions. And since the firmament is a body, consisting of three dimensions, it is truly composite.

Moses : I desire to know the reason why every body is composed of a constant length, breadth, and height.

Peter : Every body whose nature is mobile in some part, is not moved in that same part except by its nature. Now it is known that that part is moved to some other part by nature, that is its natural place. And since this is so, it is impossible [556D] that it should have any dimension to another part that is contrary to its natural place. But if it is found to have some dimension to another part, one of these two is the reason why it does so, namely, either because it is composite externally, as a wall joined by the superposition of stones, or internally, as the parts of a tree, coming out from the interior, spread themselves here and there, and receive some dimension. From these we are given to understand that whatever has any dimension is composite to another part that is contrary to the natural part of its movement. Therefore the firmament also, although it is one substance, is composite.

Moses : Reason has already taught that the firmament, with all that it possesses, is composite. But how [557A] the universal soul and matter can be found in it, how they themselves are simple, I do not know.

Peter : As the firmament has been proven to be composite, it is necessarily concluded that there is some matter of which it is composed, such as a bed, the material of which is wood, or a knife, the material of which is iron. But this matter must necessarily be simpler than the firmament, just as wood is simpler than a bed, and iron is simpler than a knife. And since all matter is simpler than the very thing made of it, and does not have in itself the form or image of its composite, it is clear that the matter of the firmament has no corporeal form in itself, and therefore is altogether simple. But if we say that something is composite in it, there must necessarily be another matter of which it is composed, which is also simpler. But even if we say that [557B] it is composite, we will admit that it has another simpler matter, and so on ad infinitum. To avoid this, it is necessary to admit that that matter is simple. Behold, it is sufficiently proven that there is matter in the firmament, and that it is simple. But we will find the soul in the same in such a way, because, namely, those forms with which the matter itself is informed were not made for the sole purpose of completing the body. For forms are called in two ways. For some only show the limit of the body, such as triangulation or roundness, or any other figure; in stone they are of no use except that they make the figure of the body itself. But others both inform the body and seem to have been made fit for a certain utility by nature, such as the form of the ear for hearing, the eyes for seeing [557C] while, and each of the forms of the other members is fitted for its office. Likewise, the form of a knife for cutting, a saw for sawing, and a rake is also fit for digging. And since matter took on various new forms in itself that it had never had before, it is clear that it had them not from itself, but by the adjunction of another thing that is both stronger and simpler, which in itself made diverse forms and images, especially since there was no necessity for such forms or images to be made in it. But this was done rather from the desire of the soul: which wished to be mixed with such a thing with which it had never been mixed together and joined together, from the new mixture the matter was informed by new forms. Therefore, since the firmament with all [557D] things which possess a composite, according to the philosophers, is not in doubt, it is necessary that it should be believed to have a beginning. For every composite has some beginning. In this way, therefore, it is clear that the world is created. But every composite must necessarily have a composer. For nothing can compose itself, and in the same way, every created thing must necessarily have a creator. For nothing can create itself. Therefore, there must be a creator of the world, who is called God.

Moses : The adversary, therefore, may insist, saying that this composer is the force of the universal soul, which is called the force of nature. Which, I say, the soul joined to matter, composed the firmament and all that [558A] is in it, and there is no other composer or creator of things.

Peter : What you say cannot stand. For since we see that the forms with which matter is informed are various and suitable for various uses, the nature itself, by whose admixture and power the forms are made, it is clear that it cannot have a completely loose but somewhat restricted nature. But this restricted nature must necessarily have some restrictor, who, however, is not restricted by anyone.

Moses : I answer that this restrictor is the soul itself, which has restricted its power to itself as it pleased.

Peter : Such works cannot be of the soul, but of such a maker, who is by himself perfect in wisdom. [558B] But the soul does not corrupt perfect wisdom.

Moses : By what reason can you show that the soul does not have perfect wisdom?

Peter : Because from the time the soul was mixed with matter, and matter was incorporated into the soul, the soul was never afterwards deprived of the vicissitudes of pains and pleasures. For no pleasure arises unless pain precedes it, as no one ever takes pleasure in drinking unless he has first suffered from thirst, no one takes pleasure in eating unless pain precedes it in hunger, or even in rest unless he has first suffered from work. But so also in all the affections. But the corporeal reason, stripping itself of contagion, and considering itself pure, weighs that which it feels is nothing better and more worthy than that which is not subject to the accidents of so many diverse passions . [558C] It is therefore clear that the soul does not have perfect wisdom. Another reason can also be given for the same matter, namely, that the soul, when it puts off reason, immediately loves luxury, theft, murder, and other vices, which the wisdom of perfect reason execrates; whence it is again evident that the wisdom of the soul is imperfect. It is therefore sufficiently proven to those who do not believe the Scriptures that there is another maker whose wisdom is perfect in itself, as is clear from the reason attributed to us by Him that the works of the soul without reason itself are flawed and in a way vile. It follows, therefore, that He through whom we receive reason is not the soul, but another, since it is impossible for one who abhors or execrates a thing to wish to make it . It also follows from this that the soul is imperfect, but the giver of reason is perfect wisdom. And since reason operates in the soul, the giver of reason is necessarily the maker of the soul. And since there is, and the soul, as was proved above, formed all things composed in matter, it can be concluded without doubt that He who gave reason and made all things exists, and is the cause of all things. And this opinion concerning the soul is certainly philosophical. For philosophers say that the rational soul proceeds from the universal. But the Jews, as you know, assert that all souls were created together at the beginning of the world, and were placed in one place, and that until they are all incorporated, the day of judgment will not come, and that from the moment they are incorporated, the end of the world will immediately come. But the Christians maintain that new souls are produced every day, and are infused into new bodies formed in the womb. But whatever you choose to believe about the soul, without a doubt, as has been said, He who gave reason made all things and exists for the cause of all things. Now this Creator, who has perfect wisdom, must exist eternally, and be neither created nor new, since, if this is believed to be either created or new, it is necessary that He must have another creator or innovator. For nothing can ever create or innovate itself, and thus the number of creators or innovators will be without end. But since the makers have no end, the making will also never reach a certain limit. Therefore, we must believe that the first maker is neither created nor innovated, but necessarily eternal. Moreover, it is fitting to believe that he is not composite, but simple. For every composition of movement [559B]is, and the act of a simple thing. Likewise, that which is prior cannot have a beginning. But every composition has some beginning. Therefore the first Creator is not composite, but neither is it corporeal. For everything corporeal, as we have discussed at length above, is composite. Likewise, neither is it movable. For everything that is moved consists of parts. But whatever consists of parts is composite. But that which is first of all is not composite. Therefore neither is it movable. Again, all motion takes place in a body, whether it be a straight motion, as when someone abandons one place and occupies another, or a circular motion, when something existing in the same place, like a firmament, turns into an orb, or whether it be a motion of the parts of a thing to each other [559C] , either from the extremities to the middle, or from the middle to the extremities, as is done in the parts of the air, or whether it be a motion of a thing existing indeed in the same place, but by certain increments as it were, moving here and there, as is done in the branches of trees that gradually grow in all directions. But all these movements can only take place in a body. But that which is first of all has been proven not to be corporeal. Therefore it neither varies nor is corrupted. Again, it neither grows by itself nor is increased from another. For everything that either receives growth or increase is undoubtedly also composite. But that which is first of all, we have shown above that it is not composite. Therefore it neither grows nor is augmented. Likewise, it does not decrease. For that which decreases is corrupted. But [559D] that which is first of all has been proven not to be corrupted: therefore it does not decrease. Again, no creature has a likeness in anything. For likeness is a quality. But that which is first of all is not subject to any quality: therefore neither to likeness. Likewise, let us suppose that it has a likeness in any creature. But it is evident that the likeness of some two makes one equal to another, as if they were said to be similar in whiteness, the whiteness of one must be equal to the whiteness of the other; similarly of blackness, and of every thing that makes a likeness between some. Wherefore, if this were the first of all, it would be first and last at the same time; and that the last, last and first at the same time. That both are as incongruous as they are, is not hidden from anyone. Again, since matter which is created has no form or image in itself, much less is the God of nature itself, the Creator, who is simpler and more subtle than nature, to be thought to have any likeness. Therefore, fulfilling the promise, we have clearly, as I think, proved by reason that God has no likeness.

Moses : Thanks be to God and to you, for I have known without any doubt or obstacle that the Creator of all things is like no creature, that He has no beginning or end. It was also clear from your words that God is the Creator of all things, the root and foundation in the first place; secondarily, soul and matter, and that God made the soul, and that the soul made by God operates in matter. But one scruple [560B] which still torments the mind, I ask that you clarify with your sagacity. For I have read in the books of most philosophers that there were five before the constitution of the world, namely God who holds the origin of all things, and after him soul and matter, time and place. Therefore, since you have discussed the three preceding, I am very surprised why you have made no mention of the last two.

Peter : Because they have no bearing on the present treatise, I have indicated that it is superfluous to speak about them.

Moses : And if it seems foreign to the treatise, yet I desire to hear what you think about these things, because the wise Catholics to whose faith you have been converted have thought about these things far differently from what the books of the ancient philosophers speak of. For Catholics have held these principles to be pious, but the ancient philosophers testify that they are eternal.

Peter : I undoubtedly give credence to those who said that they existed not with the world, but from antiquity.

Moses : I desire to know by reason how this can be established.

Peter : Place is said in two ways. For sometimes it is the cause of another thing, sometimes by itself. It is said to be the cause of another when some thing is inserted into some place, and it is said to be the place of that thing, while that thing consists in it, and the place is said to be partial. But if that thing departs from the place itself, the place loses one thing that it had before, namely, relation, because it is no longer said to be its place. But place by itself, which is said to be one [560D] versal, is called any emptiness, of which we should not suppose that the cause of that thing which is in it exists, since place must always precede the thing which will be in it. Of which place Plato’s syllogism is as follows: Everything, he says, that the whole consists of another whole, if any part of it, which is the cause of its consisting, is corrupted, of course also the part of it that consists of that. But if the part of that which consists of another is corrupted, it is not necessary that any part of that which is the cause of its consisting be corrupted. Since, then , place is the cause of the existence of the thing that is in it, it is necessarily concluded that some part of the place is not corrupted because any part of the thing that exists in it is corrupted. Which being granted, it also follows that place does not exist as a third cause. To illustrate this argument, let us introduce such a simile: If we say that a mountain is removed from any part of the world, the place in which it existed is not diminished. Therefore it has lost its former name, because that mountain can no longer be called a place, but the universal place has both its name and nature remained there. Again, you will say that the servant of any man is dead. Does because the servant is dead, therefore he has ceased to be his master? No, but he has lost only the name of master which he had with respect to him. It is clear, therefore, that when a thing that is in any place is removed, the partial name of the place is certainly changed, but the substance of the place is not at all taken away. He also says of time that it is a substance existing by itself, and not an accident, which subsists because of another, for the sake of the word [561B] , if we assume a vessel with water to know the time of individual hours, we should not consider that vessel to be the cause of existence, but only a sign of discernment of time. For time would not come about otherwise even if that vessel did not exist. In this way too we should understand that the firmament is by no means a cause, but a measure and sign only of time, but that it would be simple time, without sign and measure, and without any distinction, just as the time of the hours of the day would remain indiscernible if the vessel were not marked with water. Now let us briefly conclude everything. It has been proven that God is the maker of all things, whom his works indicate to us, because they proceed from perfect wisdom; but that the soul is both made and the maker, because it makes something [561C] in matter, and yet not corporeal; time and place are also non-corporeal, but substantial, existences by themselves, but matter is indeed made, but not the maker.

Moses : The clarity of open reason has driven out the darkness of all doubt from my breast. I have indeed learned that the world with all that is in it was made, not eternal. But this remains for you, for the perfection of your work, to give some reason that will destroy it, against those who say that the world was from eternity. For they say thus: What did it seem to the supreme Creator, in such a sudden and novel creation of things, when He had not created them for a long time? For it is wrong, they say, to believe about God that He either remembered or suddenly saw anything, which He had either forgotten or not seen before. Against this question of theirs, I have not yet found any solution.

Peter : You must know that all actions have three roots. For there is one action that should be, another that should not be, another that is simply good. That which should be is such that if you do it, you will be grateful; but if you do not do it, you will be blamed. But that which should not be, if you do it, you will be grateful; but if you do not do it, you will not be blamed. This last lacks both measure and time, just as if someone gives alms today, he is not to be inquired about why he did not do it yesterday. Similarly, if he gives one coin, he is not to be inquired about why he did not give two. And since the creation of the whole world is good, as also the Scripture testifies which says: God [562A] saw everything that he had made, and it was very good (Gen. I) , we are not to be inquired about why he did not do these things before.

Moses : I justly wish that you may be given a great reward from God, because you have so subtly resolved the question of the constitution of the world by unbelievers against believers. Now I want you to explain what you have said above, how all things were gradually made from the conjunction of soul with matter.

Peter : Philosophers say that when the soul was joined and glued to matter, the first thing that was formed was the greater firmament, in which there were no stars, and which causes all the circles to move. After that, however, the standard-bearer circle was formed, in which twelve signs flash. In the third place was the circle of the stars, which, always maintaining their [562B] position, remain fixed in their places. In the fourth place, the circle of Saturn was placed. In the fifth place was the globe of Jupiter. In the sixth place, the sword of Mars claims for itself. In the seventh, the circle of the Sun shines. In the eighth, the globe of Venus possesses. The ninth, allotted to Mercury, gives the lower tenth place to the moon. But when all these circles and all that is in them were completed, then that circular motion began, which is called simple and perfect, and that motion gave birth to heat in matter, which was poured out through it and received by it, and from this the four elements were made: fire, air, water, and earth. It is clear, however, that every movement that proceeds from some mover, and every power of any powerful one, the closer they are to those from which they proceed, the greater [562C] force and strength they obtain, and the more remote they are from them, the softer and weaker they become. And since this is so, it is clear that the heat that proceeded from the movement of the firmament became much hotter in the nearer places, and was burning, and became, that is, fire of a dry and hot nature. But because for a little while that heat withdrew further from the firmament, it lost a little of its force, became a little colder, and was weaker, but it also moved itself here and there, whence the nature of the air became hot and humid. For all heat, as long as it is very strong, dries and burns. But that from which it becomes warm, it causes the thing to soften and liquefy. But as it receded still further from the firmament, the root, as it were, being far away, lost its vigor, and therefore the cold nature ceased to exist through [562D] , and became liquid and heavy. And since it receded still further than it was from the firmament, the very nature of coldness, because of its excessive removal, was rendered stronger, thicker, more frozen, and harder, and became dry and cold, and is itself the earth. Thus, in this way, the nature of the elements, complete, moved that nature, and the force of the firmament, to do the will and command of God. And when the force of the firmament had thus moved them all to one another, they were mixed together and joined together, and from their very mixture other smaller bodies were born, inanimate, animate, and animal. Inanimate indeed, such as stones and metals, and others which are contained within the earth and do not grow, such as quicksilver, sulphur, and the rest; [563A]but animate, as trees and grass; but animals and irrational, as brute, and rational, that is, man who was made after all. Therefore every creature began its beginning from the universal soul, and ends in man, gradually migrating from one to another. Therefore soul and matter are simple, and the makers of all subjects by the ineffable providence of the supreme Creator. But whatever is lower than these, obeying the will of the supreme ruler, holds the office of both made and maker. For each of them is both made by its superior, and makes its inferior so. Hence also of the same David the prophet exhorts thus, saying: Bless the Lord, all his works, in every place of his dominion (Ps. 102) . Although all these are diverse, yet the divine power so restrains them that in no way do they seem to be at variance or at variance with each other. Which David likewise testifies in another place thus, saying: Let them praise the name of the Lord, for he spoke and they were made, he commanded and they were created. He has established them for ever and ever, he has set a commandment and will not pass it (Ps. 148) . But each of the lower things is called simple in relation to the higher, but the lower is called composite. But the human body, which is inferior to all because there is nothing below it to which it can be called simple, is not undeservedly called composite from the whole, and man was made from an entirely simple creature, the same soul and body entirely composite. Therefore God poured into him and enlightened him with the wisdom of his highness, by which he could know and discern all things. Therefore the species of man [563C] was made better, and more elegant, and more excellent in all things among all species of animals. Hence it is not unjustly called the world smaller.

Moses : You have demonstrated a difficult matter, obscure and unknown to many, with lucid and quite open language, and now from these words of yours I clearly understand what Moses could have meant at the beginning of the book of Genesis according to philosophy. For he says: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth (Gen. I) , the same universal soul and matter. And he gradually enumerated all the creatures, until he came to man, who was finally created on the sixth day through a succession of days. But in this another question arises for some who do not believe that God is the Creator of the world, which is this: If, they say, all things in the world [563D] were not created by themselves, but there is another Creator who created all things, since he himself, as you say, is omnipotent, why did he accomplish all these things not in one, but in the space of so many days by working for a short time? I do not know how to conjecture what answer should be given to this.

Peter : Reason does not allow that, because one creature was created more slowly than another, their supreme Creator should be believed to be less powerful. For this was not His impotence, but because one of the creatures themselves was softer, the other harder in receiving its creation and form, as if you were to take one mass in which iron, copper, and lead, tin, pitch, and wax were placed together, and this mass, mixed from all these, were to be thrown into the fire in one and the same moment , would all of them melt at one and the same stroke of time? Certainly not, but first the wax, then the pitch, then the tin, next the lead, after the copper, and finally the iron would melt. Do you then attribute this to the power of fire, that some melt more quickly than others, or do you attribute their various weaknesses?

Moses : No one doubts that the power of fire is the same for all things, but those that are softer melt more quickly, but those that are harder melt more slowly.

Peter : In the same way, among the creatures of the world, there was no other reason for the delay of so many days, than because some of them were slower in assuming form.

Moses : With the error of doubt removed, I now behold the light of truth.

Peter : This [564B] speech is sufficiently open and firm to anyone , and is supported on all sides by the proof of arguments and reason. But your teachers, while they stubbornly try to oppose us in some things, are themselves found to be contrary to themselves.

Moses : I would like, if you please, to show what this error is.

Peter : For they say that God, when He established the firmament, not wanting to complete it at all, left the space of a certain great opening in the northern part imperfect. Which they assert that He did for this very reason, that if anyone should ever rise up and make himself equal to Him and say that he is God, God Himself would oppose to him the perfection of that space, saying: “If You are God as I am, close that place if You can, which I have left open.” But how blatant a lie this is, is not hidden from the eye of any eye. For the axis of the northern pole is always very high above us, and we never see it hidden, and we see it all whole and perfect. Do you then consider how manifest this error is?

Moses : I weigh it, indeed, and I recognize this speech as devoid of all force of reason.

Peter : Is not the lie they fabricated about the nails of Korah still more dishonorable and absurd?

Moses : How do they seem to you to be lying?

Peter : They said, as you know, that Korah, when he was passing through the desert with Moses and the children of Israel, had three hundred camels loaded, carrying nothing else [564D] except the keys of the same treasure, which keys were all made of cow thongs, so that they could be carried more lightly. Let us therefore calculate, if you please, O Moses, and see whether this can stand. Let us give at least six keys to a pound, and since each camel carried at least six hundred pounds, there will be three thousand six hundred keys which one camel carried. So there will be 300 keys to 130 thousand camels. But since each key is at least one ark, there will undoubtedly be as many arks as there are keys. Let each camel therefore be given at least two arks, and there will be five hundred and forty thousand camels carrying arks. But also according to the custom of the rich, who are more concerned about guarding their wealth, it was necessary to have at least two camels and one keeper, who, guarding the treasures with the greatest diligence, would hardly even sleep, and there were two hundred and forty thousand camel keepers. And we have learned from the book that the army of Korah, by their houses and kindreds and families, was only eight thousand six hundred. Similar to this is what is no less ridiculous that they say that the sons, namely Jacob, carrying their father to the grave, the sons of Esau, likewise carrying their father to the grave, met them with a large retinue: and since the army on both sides was great and each party wanted to claim the grave for itself, they say that the son of Dan went up the mountain and cut down a stone of such great size as the number of the entire army of Esau could be, and carried the same mass on his head, so that, throwing it over the enemy’s camp, he could overthrow them all with one blow. And when he had come and found both the heaps in harmony, he threw the mass which he had brought into the sea, and the water of the sea, exceeding its limits by reason of its greatness, overthrew two cities with its outpouring, and these are the very ones which Pharaoh, king of Egypt, commanded the children of Israel to build a long time afterwards. Does not this invention, I pray you, seem to you justly worthy of the utmost laughter? For when Jacob had as yet only twelve sons, the men of Esau from his tribe already numbered four hundred. Now, then, with the number of Jacob’s sons increased, how much greater can be supposed to have been the number of Esau’s sons? So great must have been their multitude, that they could have stood against both the sons of Jacob, and the whole nation of Egyptians who had come with Joseph. Now therefore, tell [565C]What is more worthy of admiration than these, namely, where he found such a mountain, or on which mountain a mass of such wonderful size, or how he could carry a stone of such great weight on his head, that he could overthrow so great a host. No less astonishing is that monster, which Og, king of Bashan, seeing the vast army of Israel, namely six hundred and four thousand, and five hundred men from twenty years old and upwards, excepting the women and children who could not be counted, placed on his head a mass of unheard of size, and wanted to overthrow the whole expedition with it, but the hoopoe, a bird of small size, sank down to it, and crushed it with its beak for so long until, having made a large hole according to the size of the head of the same king, the mass, leaping over the head, sank down on the same shoulders [565D] . But with his head healthy and the whole body unharmed, he would perhaps have lifted it still from the neck, had not the number of teeth suddenly increased prevented it. For as soon as the stone came down upon his neck, his teeth suddenly became so hard that, when he wanted to lift it up, he could not lift it up. Seeing this, Moses, whose body you claim was ten cubits long, and whose rod you attribute to him the same length, raised himself ten cubits above the ground in the manner of a springer, in order to strike him in some part of his body with the rod. If, therefore, you count the ten cubits by which he was raised from the ground, and the ten cubits of his body, and the ten others which the rod held high, you will find from the ground to the top of the rod thirty cubits. But although Moses was so erect , yet the top of the rod with which he intended to strike him could not reach any further than the joint where the sole of the foot is joined, which is commonly called the ankle. In which, indeed, when he had struck him, he fell down immediately and expired. In this anyone can understand that from the sole of the foot which he held fixed in the ground to the joint where he was struck, it was thirty cubits. From that place, therefore, to the top, there were no less than eight hundred cubits, and the head alone could easily stand ten cubits. Whence it follows that that bird pierced the very mass ten cubits. In which deed there are many things to be wondered at, or rather what to be wondered at, when I consider it, I am astonished. For where was so much stone to be found, or how could it carry so much weight? Or how [566B] so little a bird was able to penetrate so much, so hard, so thick a body of stone so quickly, or how could its teeth grow so quickly? Or by what means should it be believed to have been of such immense and unheard-of size, especially since the law says that its bed of iron was not but nine cubits (Deut. 3), or how did such a great man fall so easily wounded? I would like to show their greater folly by noting another ridiculous fact. For they say that Moses ascended into heaven in order to receive the law, and there he disputed with the angels in such a way. For the angels said, they say: “We will not allow you to bring this law, which we know is more necessary for us than for the children of Israel.” To this Moses, terrified by the unusual vision, presumptuously made no reply, but the Lord [566C] strengthened him to answer confidently, and giving him instructions, he said to the angels: “Since this law contains the precepts for governing bodies, I do not sufficiently consider what is necessary for you, who are only spiritual creatures.” The angels, having nothing to say to this, fell silent, defeated. You say, then, that God laughed at Moses’ victory and was very glad, and that Moses, after his triumph, came down with the law in high spirits. How many varieties of folly, I ask, are contained in this lasciviousness? For how could Moses, weighed down by the bulk of his body, ascend the height of heaven, or how could the angels, when God wanted to give a law, forbid it? What is more foolish than to say that God rejoices over the defeated angels, and laughs in a childish manner? Also, if the angels, as you say, were so eager to retain that law, why had they not sought it from God first? Or what did it profit them to be furious with contentions? For they could have observed the law itself together with the Jews, and had no reason why they should have withheld it from Moses. No less ridiculous to anyone than all this is another incident that they themselves mention. For they say that the angel of death appeared to a certain man named Joshua, the son of Levi, a teacher, and said to him: “Know that I have come to take your life, and that you may die. – By no means, said he, will I do what you advise, unless you first show me paradise.” So the angel took him up on his wings and led him to a place where he could see paradise. But the cunning man, falling from his wings, allowed himself to fall into paradise. The angel, feeling sorry that he had been deceived [567A] , with a very angry face said: “Go out, he said, that you may die. – No way, he said, I will go out.” And when the angel repeated the same thing with a loud cry a second and a third time, and he ignored his words, the angel, greatly moved, went to God and complained about this matter. But God asked him to return, so that he might command that man to go out of paradise in the name of God. So the angel came to paradise and said: “God commands you to go out.” He swore and said: “By God I will not go out.” The angel returned to God and said: “He swore an oath that he would never go out from there.” So giving judgment, God replied: “Roll up all the volumes of his life and actions, and read them carefully. If at any time you find him to have sworn and perjured, now also nothing is right for him [567B]”The sword will do. But if you never prove that he was a perjurer, you will not fear this time.” So the angel diligently examined all the volumes, and found that he had never perjured. He therefore sent him away defeated, who, as you say, remains safe and alive to this day. Consider, I beg you, how much laughter can be noted in this little discourse. For what should we wonder more? Is it the folly of the angel who did not first recognize the cunning art of man, or that the man, having heard the command of God through an angel, dared to swear against the command itself, or should we say that it was God’s impotence that he could not have expelled him from paradise except by a message, or should we attribute it to God’s ignorance: that he could not have known otherwise whether he had perjured, unless he had ordered the books of his life to be turned over? Are not all these [567C] most foolish? But if we were to put all that your teachers have written similar to these, we would fill many books, as they do, with nonsense stories. But we have introduced a few things, so that their wisdom or their folly may be evident to all. This, then, is what I told you above, that the words of your teachers seem to be nothing else than the words of boys joking in the schools, or women gossiping in the streets. But tell me, I pray you, O Moses, is it right to accept the law of such men, or to approve the authority of the courts? May the divine mercy deliver you from their execrable precepts and counsels, just as it has delivered me, although not by my own merits, and may it subject you with me to salutary commands, so that both may be enriched equally with their ineffable rewards.

Title II.

On the knowledge of the present captivity of the Jews The case deals with, and how long it should last.

Moses : Since whatever our teachers unworthily apply to the divine majesty, you have shown that all of them cannot be sustained by the light of incontestable reasons, nor by the authority of Scripture, nor by the force of any reason, let us now come to the second part of your propositions, in which you spoke of our captivity, if you please. For you said (unless it has slipped your mind) that we hope to escape captivity in such a way, namely in a way in which we cannot possibly escape. Now therefore, for this reason I ask whether you grant that we escape in the way in which we believe, [568A] but in another way, or even in no way at all (which is far from it).

Peter : I do not believe in the way you yourselves think, but I do not deny that you will escape in another way.

Moses : Wherefore, by what we say, we cannot possibly be delivered in this way, and I desire to hear what the mode of deliverance is.

Peter : Since you deny that Christ is the Son of God, or that he came into the world for the redemption of the human race, and refuse to keep his commandments, you will not be able to be freed from captivity. But if you believe that he is the Son of God, and has already come, and keep his commandments, you will immediately come out of captivity. [568B]

Moses : What authority can you bring forward for such a discourse?

Peter : We must first see what was the cause of your captivity, so that we may also better recognize the way of escape, using the manner of a wise physician, who first examines the illness, so that he may know what medicine is needed.

Moses : Well said, I commend it.

Peter : First I want you to tell me the cause of the Babylonian captivity, which lasted only seventy years, because when we hear of it, it will help us to know the cause of this great captivity.

Moses : Many sins, which it would be too long to enumerate, were the cause of the former captivity.

Peter : I grant that it is so, but still I want to hear some things from you about them .

Moses : I will bring forward a few of those which are approved by prophetic authority, namely, taking usury, or a gift for iniquity, swearing falsely, giving false money in selling and buying, bearing false witness, slandering one another, dishonoring parents, and places of holiness, and Sabbath days; revealing the filthiness of one’s mother, sister, daughter, mother-in-law, or any illicit woman, committing murders, worshiping idols, sacrificing to the stars, denying God, and killing God’s prophets, such as Urias, Zechariah, and Isaiah, and many others which, as I said above, are too long to enumerate, which increased to such an extent that God said to the prophet Jeremiah: Go about the ways of Jerusalem, and look and consider, [568D] seek in its streets if you can find a man who practices justice and seeks truth, I will be merciful to him (Jer. V) . Likewise Ezekiel says: I sought among them a man who should make a hedge, and stand opposite me, that I should not destroy it, and I found none (Ezek. 22) .

Peter : I rejoice and give thanks, because now I know that you see some spark of truth. Tell me, then, if you know, what was the cause of this so long and so terrible captivity, which has now lasted one thousand and forty years.

Moses : These same sins and similar ones.

Peter : You will not be able to confirm this argument with any authority, because for three hundred years before the overthrow of Jerusalem there was no prophet in Israel who predicted or wrote this, especially since your teachers [569A] say that this was the sole cause of the overthrow of the people of Jerusalem, that one was unjustly hostile and envious of the other. Moreover, to the destruction of your argument they add that, after the temple was built, God delivered into their hands the prince of sin, whom they bound hand and foot and plucked out one eye, and from that day he has no power to deceive in murder and idolatry, and in revealing the filthiness of incestuous relations. Therefore not all the things that were the cause of the former were also the cause of the latter captivity. They also say that, when the temple was in existence, there were many men of good life who should have been prophets if there had been a time for prophecy. Many also used new miracles, as they say that John the son of Zacchaeus was of such holiness that when he sat in his chair to read his books, God , in order to show the power of his merits, caused all the birds flying over him to be burned up and fall to the ground. They also attribute another such miracle to another, namely Hunni. They say that in his time the earth suffered a drought. He himself entered a circle of stones and said to God: “I swear by your name, God, that I will not leave here unless rain falls on the earth.” It began to rain lightly, but when he himself asked for more rain, so much rain fell that it almost devastated all the lands. But when he asked for it moderately, moderate rain fell, and the earth overflowed with all good things. They also say of Hananiah the son of Dosa that a voice daily from Mount Horeb bore such testimony to his holiness , saying: “Because of the goodness of Hananiah the son of Dosa, I govern the whole world, for whom yet little of himself suffices for the world.” Of whom they also relate another such miracle. For since he and his wife both led a very poor life for God, every day of the week he ordered the oven to be heated, so that his relatives and neighbors might come to him with food and believe that he was living well. One day, therefore, as usual, he had ordered the oven to be heated, and some of his neighbors had noticed why this was being done, and he suddenly came to the oven, so that by revealing their deeds he might bring shame to both the man and the woman. So when he came to the oven and looked inside, he saw it full of loaves, which he ran quickly to tell the aforementioned woman. She did this not as a matter of truth, but as a matter of reproach [569D]Thinking that the cause was telling, she refused to believe it until she herself proved it. So she went, looked, found it as she had said it was near, and returning to her husband, rejoicing, she told him in order how God had changed the will of the wicked woman into honor. He, judging it unworthy that he should take for his own use what God had made a miracle, replied that he would not taste anything of it, but gave it all to the poor. They say, moreover, that at the same time there was Nicodemus, the son of Guirion, a man of very praiseworthy life. In whose days a drought pressed so much upon the land, that when they went to the temple for the purpose of prayer, they could not have anything to drink on the way. Now on the way there was a cistern belonging to a certain noble prince . Approaching this prince, Nicodemus said: “Give me your cistern for the use of the whole people, if you please, and I will pay the cistern with water until that day, or at least pay the price.” What much? He obtained what he asked for, and quenched the thirst of the people. But when on the appointed day the creditor was present to demand payment, and because of the extreme drought he had no water in the cistern, Nicodemus, having prayed to God, obtained rain from heaven over the whole land, and restored the cistern, as he had received it, to his master full. But because at the hour when the same rain fell, the day was already drawing to evening, the prince said to Nicodemus: “I indeed receive the water by your prayer, but nevertheless, since the whole hour of the appointed day has passed, you must pay me the price of the debt of [570B] bes.” So he prayed again, stopped the course of the sun, and the whole world was illuminated by its light, and the question of the debt escaped. You also have it written about Achiba that whatever he requested he obtained from God. Of whose great holiness this is read. When Moses had gone up into the mountain to receive the law, and had foreseen all the times that would come after him, and all the generations of the ages, by the dictate of the Holy Spirit, and had seen Achiba among men surpassing human life, and powerful in great merits, he said to God: “Since man is to have such a life, why, O Lord, is it pleasing to minister your law to the people through me and not through him?” To these things God said: “Because,” he said, “the law is necessary in the present world, but Achiba will be after [570C] long times.” In these things it is given to be understood that Moses foresaw him of whom he said such things, as being far better than himself. These and others like these were your elders and judges, who commanded the younger to do good, and whose admonitions the rest gladly obeyed. If even one of them had been like him in the time of the former captivity, as we have shown above that God spoke through Jeremiah (Jer. V) , the captivity would never have been made. And what is more surprising, in these days when the best of these were in power, the same Jews were taken captive, the temple being destroyed. Tell me, then, O Moses, what was the cause of this captivity, because the reason you stated above does not stand firm on any solid basis.

Moses : I have nothing else to say, except that [570D] while the temple was standing for a long time, many sins gradually increased with it, as our teachers have said, but with the multiplication of the offense.

Peter : When you say that the temple stood for a long time, it certainly stood for only ten years, beyond what the other, namely Solomon’s, had stood before. But when you say that sins were added to sins, reason does not accept it. For in the first captivity sins were added to sins because the wicked kings set an example of evil for others, namely, they put God aside, worshipped idols, and forced the people to do the same, as did Ahaziah, Ahaz, Manasseh, Amon, Zedekiah (2 Kings 1, 16, 21 and 24) . But the princes of the second time were completely the opposite, because they were good agents [571A] and forced the people to live well by their example. By what reason, then, can it be shown that so many sins increased, that the captivity was brought about for this reason? But when you say that the captivity was brought about because of the ill will they had towards one another, there is no anchor of right reason. For this sin was one part of what they had committed in the first captivity, and yet they should not have been taken captive for that reason, unless other greater sins had also increased with it. For we do not know how to distinguish the quantity of major and minor crimes, except according to the manner of vengeance decreed by God. But the vengeance of this is only forty lashes. There are other crimes, of which there is a greater vengeance, namely, when someone is ordered either to be beheaded, or to be killed by hanging from a noose, or to be stoned, or even to be burned with fire. [571B] How then can it be true that the crime of malevolence should be equal to the major ones? Again, reason shrinks from believing that this crime reigned so much in those times, since the words of the prophet Haggai testify that after the temple was built, God said: Great shall be the glory of this latter house more than of the former, saith the Lord of hosts, and in this place I will give peace (Haggai. ii) .

Moses : Since all the ways of my reasoning are blocked, I beg you, open the door for me with the key of your solution to this question.

Peter : Since you do not know the origin and cause of the captivity, why it was so hard, so cruel and intolerable, you cannot answer. For in the first captivity, when they had been led to Babylon like other captives , they suffered no punishment other than slavery. For they cultivated the fields, planted vineyards, built houses, and lived in security with their wives and children. But in the second, so many and such great insults were inflicted on them, and such unheard-of things, the like or equal of which have never been seen or heard. They were indeed killed, and burned, and sold like captives, and so much did that sale increase, until thirty captives were given for one piece of silver, and yet no one was found to buy them, as Moses promised, saying: You shall be sold to your enemies for menservants and maidservants, and there shall be no one to buy them (Deut. 28) . Ships filled with them were also left to roam the seas without any rower or rudder, to their shame and vile [571D] time. Moreover, after you were cast into this captivity, intolerable commands were given to you, namely, that you should not read the law, nor teach it to your children. But if anyone was found reading it or teaching it to his children, he was either burned or combed with very sharp iron combs. Moreover, you were not permitted to celebrate the Sabbath or the Passover. But if anyone was found doing this, he was punished most severely. On this account you were forbidden to circumcise your children in the ancient manner, and a long time passed during which no one dared to circumcise his son except in secret. But anyone found circumcising was subjected to the most severe penalties. Moreover, a most severe edict was promulgated to you, that if any of you would marry a virgin girl, he should first take her to the prince of the province [572A] , that he might sleep with her, and so finally return to the Jew and marry her. On this matter you were so contrite that no one would wish to marry a virgin. Thus, throughout all the successions of times, various evil commands were declared to you, as is proved by your own testimonies in the books.

Moses : I admit all kinds of evils without a doubt, but for some time now I have been longing to hear the cause of so much tribulation.

Peter : Because you do not know the cause of evils, therefore you do not know why it is so long. For behold, you have already completed a thousand and forty years in it, and you have no written record of how long it should last; but legal justice demands that, when those who committed some crime are punished or die, the followers [572B] should be free from captivity, as it is written in the law, that the spies who were sent to view the land of promise, when they wished to be rebellious against the will of God, lest their sin should go unpunished, remained forty years in the wilderness, and in the space of their days, all those transgressors died (Num. 13 and 14) . Who, having been punished with such a death, the sons who were innocent of the crime of their fathers entered the land promised to their fathers. Seventy years were also delayed in the Babylonian exile, until all whose sins had brought about the captivity had died, the sons who had not deserved anything were freed from the yoke. In this captivity which was made by Titus, countless generations have already passed away, and there is still no end . But this was done contrary to the word which the Lord said to Moses: The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin (Deut. 24) . Ezekiel also says: As I live, saith the Lord God, this parable shall no more be a proverb in the land of Judah. ​​Behold, all souls are mine, as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine. The soul that sinneth, it shall die (Ezek. 18) .

Moses : And if the length of our captivity is contrary to these examples, yet it agrees with other laws and Scriptures. For in Exodus the Lord says: I am the Lord your God, a mighty God, a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me (Exod. 20) . Jeremiah [572D] also has these words: Our fathers have sinned, and are not, and we have borne their iniquities (Lam. 5) .

Peter : The matter is different from what you say. For if the words of the prophet were thus, they would be contrary to each other. But thus both are dissolved. For what is said, that the children shall not bear the iniquity of the fathers (Ezek. 17) , is thus understood if the children have not committed the iniquity of the fathers. But what is said, that the children bear the iniquity of the fathers (Exod. 20) , is thus said to bear, if they have committed the crimes of the fathers.

Moses : What you say gives rise to a reasonable and just understanding in the wise. But this is given to be understood from your words, that all generations of followers remain in the captivity of their fathers for this reason, [573A] because they carry out the works of their fathers, as far as they can. But if they were to abandon the works of their fathers and come out of captivity.

Peter : I certainly feel that way.

Moses : Now, if you please, reveal the magnitude of such a great debt.

Peter : Because you killed Christ the Son of God, calling him a magician, and born of a harlot, and that he led the whole nation into error. Your ancestors protested these and similar things, until, making the whole people accomplices to their wicked will, they unjustly brought a just man to a very unjust judgment, crucified him and killed him. So great therefore is the magnitude of the guilt that causes so long a captivity. And as long as you remain in your father’s will both in [573B] love and in faith, you will undoubtedly be in the same tribulation of damnation.

Moses : Whether that man was the Son of God, we will have to discuss at length later, because the author of such a question needs a vehicle of the most powerful argument. Now in the meantime I want to show in this way how you try to assert that the man of whom you speak existed for the cause of our tribulation.

Peter : What authority, I pray you, do you demand of me on this, when you have already admitted to me above that an altogether unheard-of sin was the cause of such unheard-of affliction? And since you are in no way able to show it, the equity of judgment commands you to hear it from me, and you must not seek where I can prove it, but destroy it by all means if you can, or concede what you cannot deny . But although I am not constrained by the censure of judgment, I will adduce not one, but many authorities on this matter.

Moses : That is what I desire with all my heart.

Peter : You must know that, forty years after the death of Christ, the city of Jerusalem was destroyed by Titus. Likewise, forty years before it was destroyed, portents and signs were seen in it, clearly indicating that this destruction of the temple and the city was to come, as the books of your doctrine testify. For they say that forty years before it was overthrown, the red wool that was attached to the horns of a goat did not turn white as usual, and also the candle of the lampstand that faced the west went out before the usual time . Moreover, the doors of the temple, without anyone touching it, were opened of their own accord with a great noise. When one of your teachers, named John, the son of Zacchaeus, had often seen them thus opened, he was greatly moved and at last cried out: “Be quiet;” and added: “The temple, the temple, I know for sure that your last burning will possess it, as the prophet also says: Open your doors, Lebanon, and let the fire devour your cedars (Zech. 11) .” Since, therefore, these wonders were seen forty years before the destruction, and in the fortieth year from the death of Christ the city was destroyed by Titus, it is clearly concluded that these signs were done from the time of the death of Christ. But this too John understood with your other teachers, that the death of Christ [574A] was the cause of your captivity. But they did not say that it was the cause, namely the malevolence and envy of men, that was the cause of the captivity, but they kept silent about the true cause. For the envy and malice of the Jews was the cause of the death of Christ, and the death of Christ was the cause of the captivity.

Moses : If it were true that that man was such as you say, and that his death was the cause of our tribulation, none of us would be worthy to live. For such a sin is greater than denying God. For he who denies God alienates from himself only the faith which he had received; but he who kills the Son of God, besides this that he denies the divinity which is invisible, also adds the sin that the visible thing which he beholds with the bodily eyes, also severs it from the faith of the soul [574B] , since that which is seen ought to bring greater credulity to the mind than that which is not seen. Moreover, our fathers smeared him with spittle, beat him with blows, suffered many and various injuries, and innocently crucified him. Hence it is not without reason that this crime was greater than that which they committed in the wilderness, when they worshipped the golden calf instead of God. Then we read that God wanted to destroy Israel altogether, unless Moses, interceding for them with much weeping and fasting and prayer, had turned away the anger of the Lord, afflicting himself for the same sin by the continual fasting of forty days and forty nights (Exod. XXXII) , as the law records, saying: I fell down before the Lord as before, eating no bread and drinking no water for forty days , because of all your sins which you committed against the Lord, for I feared his anger and his indignation, with which he was stirred up against you, to destroy you (Deut. IX) . Therefore, unless Moses’ prayer had intervened, not one of the whole people would have survived. But since they had presumptuously committed another crime which exceeds the number of crimes, namely, killing the Son of God, and there was no one to intercede for them, therefore no one should have lived. But you see that it is not so, but God both allows us to live, and daily shows how much He loves us, when He grants us favor in the sight of our enemies, and enriches us with wealth, and exalts us with honors, as He promised us through the mouth of the prophet Moses, saying: When they were in the land of their enemies, I did not utterly [574D] cast them off, nor did I so despise them that they were consumed, that I should break My covenant with them. For I am the Lord their God (Lev. 26) .

Peter : You do not conceive a right understanding of this matter. For God does not allow a remnant of your people to live because He thinks of their advantage, but only so that you may serve all nations, and be a reproach, a tale, and a curse in the eyes of all, as the lawgiver promised you, saying: You shall be destroyed as a proverb and a byword among all peoples to whom the Lord shall bring you (Deut. 18) , and that you may be a parable to all people, and a proverb to all who seek one another. What do you think is the reason why God subjected this nation, scattered throughout the world, to perpetual slavery [575A] , and condemned it to the punishment of so many evils? And another will answer: Because of such a sin, that they killed the Son of God out of envy alone, therefore they fell into these evils. But if at the very time when the sin was committed by you, He had utterly destroyed the entire Jewish race, after many cycles of time had passed, the fault had been erased by oblivion, and no mortal would know it, and thus you would avoid both the reproach of infamy and the danger of evils, as has happened to many nations and kings, whose deeds have been erased by the antiquity of time. There is also another reason why God did not wish to destroy the Jewish nation. For He saw that some of your seed would someday believe in Him and be saved, and therefore for their sake He did not wish to destroy your stock altogether, [575B] as Isaiah says: As if grain is found in a cluster, and it is said, Do not scatter it, for it is a blessing; so will I do for the sake of My servants, that I may not destroy it all (Isa. 65) . Now the testimony of the divine mercy towards you which was promised to Moses in the book of the law, refers not to the present, but to the past captivity of Babylon, since He was to lead you out of it at some time.

Moses : By what authority do you prove that the promise pertains only to the Babylonian captivity?

Peter : For in the place where God made this promise to Moses, if you pay attention to the above for a moment, you will find that the same Moses had said before: Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths, all the days of its desolation, when you are in the land of the enemy, it shall keep sabbaths, and shall rest [575C] on the sabbaths (Lev. 26) . Now Ezra proves in the book of Times that this was fulfilled when they were led into Babylon, saying among other things: Israel was led into Babylon, and served the king and his sons, until the land celebrated its sabbaths. For all the days of its desolation it kept sabbath (2 Chron. 36) . In these words it is clearly evident that he is speaking of the first captivity.

Moses : This authority of mine is not sufficient for doubt, because it does not show that we fell into this captivity because of that man.

Peter : That you seek a more evident testimony that you have undergone this captivity for the death of Christ, than that which you read written among you, because, namely, at the very beginning of the captivity, a certain [575D] ruler of your country sent ten of the best of the whole Israelite people, namely Ananias the son of Terradion, Simeon the son of Gamaliel, Ishmael the son of Elisha, and Achiba, and the rest, prisoners, into prison, inquiring what righteous thing they had sold. For, he says, the law distinguishes that whoever sells a Jew is to be sentenced to death. And you, therefore, must die according to the judgment of the law. “The decree says, it gives various bodies to death.” For not all were punished by one punishment, but each one had different kinds of death proposed. One, namely, was burned by fire, another was torn to pieces with the claws of an iron comb and expired, but another was consumed by various kinds of death, as the book of your doctrine has explained those deaths. But your teachers [576A], changing the name of this righteous man for whom they were thus punished, were completely silent about Christ in this matter. For they said that that prince understood a righteous man by name, Joseph the son of Jacob, whom his brothers had sold into Egypt (Gen. XXXVII) , and demanding his blood from them, for his sake he inflicted such punishments on them. But it seems absurd to reason that he should demand from them that which had been done at least fifteen hundred years before, especially since at the time when Joseph was sold there was no law by which that prince could convict them of death.

Moses : Your reasons are not sufficient for me, since you do not confirm them with any authority, but you invent them at your own discretion, nor is there any necessity in them [576B] by which you should compel me to believe you. But I want you, if you can, to bring forward some authority from the prophets, by which you show that this captivity is necessary for that man, and that he is Christ, and that there can be no certain end for us in this tribulation.

Peter : The prophet Isaiah says: From the ends of the earth we have heard praises, the glory of the righteous (Isa. 24) . These words show that the praises of this righteous man were everywhere in the world. But we have never heard of the praises of any righteous man being so great as to reach even to the ends of the earth. For he foresaw the tribulations which he was to suffer without cause, and sympathized with the righteous man in these words, saying: Woe to me! the transgressors have transgressed, by the transgression of the transgressors they have transgressed (Isa . [576C] 24) . For the prophet, foreseeing what tribulations the prophets who foretold the coming of God would bring, said: The transgressors have transgressed , but seeing that, not content with the members, they would also, full of envy, oppress even the head itself in every way they could, and would kill it according to the passibility of the body, he doubled the name of transgression, thus substituting, by the transgression of the transgressors they have transgressed . But because punishments were to be meted out for this sin, the Spirit, foreknowing, immediately subjoined: Strength and the pit and the snare are upon you, O inhabitant of the earth (ibid.) . Among the rest he also says of the same nation: For their iniquity shall weigh them down, and they shall fall, and shall not add to rise again (ibid.) , where, namely, the Lord [576D] then utterly depressed the term of your escape from captivity. The Lord, through the same prophet, in another place has set a consonance with these, saying: Now go, write upon a box, and inscribe it diligently in a book, and it shall be in the last day for a testimony for ever: For it is a people provoking to wrath, and lying children, children unwilling to hear the law of God, who say to those who see: See not, and to those who see: Do not behold for us the things that are straight. Remove from me the way, turn aside from me the path, let the holy one of Israel cease from before us (Isa. xxx.) . The boxwood is a hard wood, and incorruptible. But for this reason he commanded it to be written on a box, and to be diligently engraved in a book, that it might last for ever, and remain until the last day as a testimony and reproach to their unbelief. By [577A] this also which he says, it will be in the last day, etc., he intimates that the error of the Jews would continue until the last day. But what and why it should be written, he insinuates both in one verse when he says: For it is a people provoking to wrath, and lying children, children unwilling to hear the law of God . Of which law of God did he speak? For if the prophet had wished to speak of the law of God which he had given through Moses, of their unwillingness to hear the law of God, when they had already frequently heard it, he would certainly not have said this, but of their unwillingness to fulfill it. Therefore Christ understood of the law which he was about to give, of which the prophet already foreknew that they would not hear it. But what he brought in,who say to those who see: Do not see, and to those who see: Do not look at us for what is right. Take away the way from me, turn aside the path from me , this [577B] he added indeed for the sake of John the son of Zacharias, the forerunner of Christ (John 1) , and the others who not only predicted that Christ would come, but also pointed with their finger, to whom he foresaw that the Jews would not believe, but would say such words. But what they say in the following is not to be overlooked. For they say: Let the holy Israel depart from our face . Who is this holy Israel? Is God visible, that they should say of Him, Let him depart from our face , or can it be said of an invisible thing, that he departs from human sight, since he cannot be seen by it? If therefore you seek God who can be seen, you will find none but Christ. For He is one with the Father God (John 10) , and yet through humanity He appeared visible to the world (Tit 3). But when he had [577C] mentioned so many of their transgressions, he added the punishment of the sin itself, saying: Because you have rejected this slander, and have trusted in calumny and tumult, and have leaned upon it, therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach falling, and a breach sought in a high wall; for suddenly, when it is not expected, its breaking shall come, and it shall be broken as a potter’s vessel is broken with a mighty breaking, and I could not find among its fragments a vessel in which to carry a spark from the fire, or to draw a little water from the pit (Isa. xxx) . The Word of God is Christ (John i) . Therefore he who rejects Christ, certainly rejects the Word also conversely. Punished therefore, because they rejected the Word of God, they are punished because they rejected Christ, and trusted in the words of their teachers [577D] . But the breaking that will befall them for this sin, consider how hard it is. For, he says, a sudden and therefore more harmful break will happen to them, even from a high wall, because anything is crushed the more at the bottom, the higher it falls. This breaking is also compared to a broken potter’s pitcher, and it will be so great, as is said, that not even the shell will remain from its breaking. For every broken vessel can be made whole and put to some useful use, but if a vessel of earthenware is broken, its parts can be of no use by the strong breaking: and the longer the broken vessel lasts, the more the breaking increases. Therefore, when their breaking is compared to such a vessel, which is neither for taking out fire from a burning place, nor for water [578A]to be drawn out of the pit, is clearly given to understand, because your captivity has come to such a dejection, that it will never return to its former freedom. But that for the sake of some who will someday believe in Christ, and therefore to be saved. God wanted to preserve your seed, therefore the prophet added the grace of the blessed under the description, saying: As if a grain is found in a cluster, and it is said: Do not scatter it, for it is a blessing (Isa. 65) , in the same way he promised that he would not scatter you at all when he says: So will I do for the sake of my servants, that I may not destroy all (ibid.) . But why he promised this he immediately reveals, saying: I will bring forth , he says, a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah, possessing my mountains, and my inheritance, my chosen and my servants shall dwell there (ibid.) , namely, calling the mountains [578B] the apostles, who as high mountains are seen by the whole world, although in the following he understands Christ as the holy mountain pronounced in the singular; but the elect and servants, calling them saints, any others, for whose future salvation you have been reserved. But concerning those who will not believe, hear what sentence he submits: You , he says, who have forsaken the Lord, who have forgotten my holy mountain, who set a table for fortune and pour out libations on it, I will number you by the sword, and you shall all fall in the slaughter, because I have called and you did not answer, I have spoken and you did not hear (Isa. 65) . But having rebuked their iniquity, he condemns them in this way and in another, namely, by praising his faithful ones, and rebuking the unfaithful in these words: Therefore thus says the Lord [578C] God: Behold, my servants shall eat, and you shall be hungry; behold, my servants shall drink, and you shall be thirsty; behold, my servants shall rejoice, and you shall be ashamed; behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, and you shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for contrition of spirit, and you shall take your name for an oath to my chosen ones (ibid.) . And because after all these evils were over, there could be no hope of escaping captivity, he adds something else that takes away all comfort from their confidence. For he says: The Lord your God will kill you (ibid.) . He who is killed is never restored to what he was. Therefore, those who remain in unbelief will not be able to be restored. Having said this about unbelievers, he adds this about those who will believe: And he will call his servants by another name ( ibid.) . For when they will be servants of Christ, they will be called Christians by Christ (Acts 11). But what follows, and you will give your name as an oath to my chosen ones., is as if he were saying: My chosen ones will swear by your name, as even today Christians swear by saying, when they are asked to do something they do not want to do: “I will be a Jew, if I do it.” The same prophet Amos clearly confirms this saying, saying: Hear this word that I take up over you, house of Israel. The virgin Israel has fallen, she will not rise again. She is cast down to her own land, there is none to raise her up (Amos, V) . Likewise, he himself says elsewhere: The end is come upon my people Israel, I will not pass over her any more (Amos, VIII) . Both of which utterly take away your hope of escaping captivity [579A] . He also confirms that this evil has happened to you because of Christ, saying: Thus saith the Lord God: For three transgressions of Israel, and for four I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have sold the righteous, and the poor, for a pair of shoes (Amos, II) . In this place he put four for a fourth , and it was the same to say upon four , as if he had said upon four . Solomon says something similar to this. For he says, as the books of the Hebrews testify: Three things are too hard for me, and four that I do not know at all (Prov. XXX) . If you wish to understand three here by themselves, and four by themselves, they will become seven. But he himself does not count but four, which he insinuates that he did not know. Therefore we must take four for the fourth . So also in this the prophet is to be taken. But this fourth is a crime, as he immediately adds, because they sold the righteous for silver (Amos, II) . [579B] Whom, namely, the righteous, is fitting to understand Christ.

Moses : You would have said everything up to this point with a suitable and praiseworthy meaning, had you not introduced this authority, which is not based on any reason, especially since many adverse arguments can be raised against it. For many ancients before you frequently brought forward this same verse as evidence against the Jews, but could not defend it with any reason. But I am most surprised that you, a prudent man, have introduced such a base argument, which rests on no solid foundation, especially since you yourself know very well everything that can be said against it.

Peter : Considering that all who before me have rightly introduced this authority to the Jews, but are said not to have sufficiently or openly destroyed the Jewish objections, I have deliberately introduced it in the present place [579C] , so that you may make all the objections that can be made as best you can, and undertake their destruction in a different way.

Moses : This can first be rightly objected to in words, because the prophet, saying, upon the three crimes , immediately added, showing that Israel committed those three sins, but Christ, whom you wish to understand, was killed not by Israel, but by Judas.

Peter : Your objection poses no obstacle to me, since all the volumes most frequently testify that Judah is placed for Israel.

Moses : I do not doubt that it is so as you assert. But since he has mentioned the sin of Judah above, and consequently added the sin of Israel, it is sufficiently evident that the sin of Israel is different from the sin of Judah. ​​[579D]

Peter : Nor does this stand in the way of my reason. For the sin which Judah alone committed is called the sin of Judah, but that which Judah and Israel committed together is called the sin of Israel.

Moses : Since the entire people of Israel, scattered throughout all lands, did not inhabit the land of Jerusalem at that time, how could they be held guilty of the death of Christ?

Peter : Do you deny that with Judah a large part of the sons of Benjamin and Levi were then in Jerusalem?

Moses : Who dares to deny what is certain to all? [580A]

Peter : Therefore, by right, a part of the whole must receive the name. There is another, no less important reason, because, although the people of Israel were not then present at the death in body, yet having heard what they had done, their companions, accomplices in guilt, praisers and concurring, and altogether became partakers of the will. Therefore, the will must be considered for them as the deed.

Moses : And as you say, I will grant that it is so, yet I do not see that what the book says that this happened to them because of the righteous one being sold can pertain to Israel. For they themselves do not sell the Christ whom you speak of, but are read only to have bought him from Judas Iscariot (Matt. 26; Luke 22; Mark 4) .

Peter : Your objection rests on no anchor of reason, because those who with [580B] sense and aid used to sell Christ, incurred no less crime than if they had sold it themselves (Rom. 1) . For neither did Solomon make idols, but because he gave his assent to his wives and concubines who made them, the text says that he made them (3 Kings 11) .

Moses : Although I admit that you have spoken the truth in what has been said above, yet no necessity compels me to concede that this righteous Christ should be understood, since Joseph, with a sound understanding, should be taken, whom his brothers sold for thirty pieces of silver (Gen. XXXVII) .

Peter : If Joseph had wished to be understood as a prophet, he would have said by the just, not the fourth, but rather the first sin. For they had first committed that crime, because of which they afterwards suffered the harshest yoke of Pharaoh (Exod. 12) . But since repentance has been accomplished, [580C] they are now freed from punishment, why are they again accused of sin for having been pardoned?

Moses : And if I cannot defend that this was said of Joseph, yet I can assert that it was said of any other just man.

Peter : It seems unworthy and unreasonable that, since it is such a crime that no indulgence follows, because the divine sentence is raging against the whole of Israel, the people, the person of him to whom it was admitted should be hidden and unknown, moreover, since this crime is described in the Hebrew language by such a word as is imposed on one who denies God. But the sale of a Jew is not equal to the denial of God. But they themselves sold such and such a man, namely Christ, the Son of God, that they are in the same guilt [580D] as denying God.

Moses : I want you to point out four sins, all of which are open to God to deny are equal.

Peter : I do not know what book is silent about, but perhaps the first sin was when they worshipped a molten calf in the wilderness instead of God (Exod. 32) , in which act they denied the true God, and because this sin was committed by all, it was therefore common to all. The second is in which they also denied God in like manner, and all sinned in common, namely when Jeroboam made similar calves, and appointed them to be worshipped by all (3 Kings 12) . The third is when they all killed the prophets of God with the same will, and despised their words (2 Chronicles 36 ) . The fourth, however, which is greater and more serious than all, which is not even said to be venial, when they unjustly sold Christ, the Son of God and a man alien from all contagion of sin ( Isa. 53; 1 Peter 2) , and condemned him to unjust death. Behold, in this authority which I have brought against you, I have proved that all that you may object to stand without any force, and I have reasonably concluded that they agree with Christ. Therefore, based on this and all the above-mentioned authorities, founded on unshaken firmness, I consider it proven beyond doubt that this long captivity occurred because of the death and malevolence of Christ. But since I conclude that the captivity was made for Christ’s sake, it follows that you also will not come out of it until you amend the sins of your fathers in you [581B] , and believe the same thing that they did not believe. But when the mind of anyone is cleansed from guilt, divine piety will immediately follow him. Which also some of your teachers wanted to express in more subtle and hidden words, if your hardness of mind had penetrated it. For when asked when the Son of David was to come, he said, “Today, if you believe his words.” For by these words he gave to understand that whoever at any time is obedient and credulous to the commands of Christ, the Son of God immediately approaches him. I also believe that what I have proved by the testimony of your books is clear and clear to you. Therefore, brother, implore the mercy of the same Christ with me, that, having removed the error of all falsehood, He may infuse the eyes of your mind with the splendor of true faith and all goodness [581C] as well as love, and may reward your right faith in the future with a worthy reward, so that through it you may escape from captivity. Amen.

Title III.

On the foolish credulity of the Jews to be refuted upon the resurrection of their dead, whom they believe and that they will rise again, and inhabit the earth again.

Moses : As for the present title, namely, what was the cause of our so long captivity, and how we might be able to escape it, you have proved everything that ought to be deduced from it with incontestable and most evident reasons, and I do not see anything further to doubt or inquire about it, from which we may pass on to other matters, as they are arranged in the order desired above. Therefore, as you said at the beginning of the book that we erred, because [581D] after the escape from captivity, we believed in a miracle unusual to us, namely, that the dead who were to inhabit the earth would be raised by God, I beg you to explain why we seem to you to err in this belief.

Peter : You yourselves assert that this miracle is contrary to custom. But whatever happens contrary to custom, without authority or reason, should not be believed before it happens. Therefore I judge it an error to believe what you cannot prove by any authority.

Moses : We can prove this by many authorities. For this is proved by the testimony of Moses, who said to the people of Israel: See that I am alone, and there is no other God besides me. I will kill and I will make alive, I will strike and I will heal (Deut. XXXII) . [582A] Since then God promises that he will kill and make alive, why does our faith seem to you to be rejected on this matter?

Peter : This authority is beyond the reach of reason. For he says this word to show his omnipotence, not that he himself will raise your dead.

Moses : From the day on which God promised that he would do this, until the present day, do you admit that he has ever performed these miracles?

Peter : He certainly did all things. For he struck Mary, the sister of Moses the prophet, Job, Hezekiah, Naaman, and many others when he wished, and healed them when he wished (Num. 12; Job 12; 4 Kings 3; 20) . Likewise, in one night he killed all the firstborn of Egypt ( Exod. 12) , and in one night he killed one hundred and eighty-five thousand in the camp of Sennacherib (4 Kings 19) . But on the contrary, he raised up the son of the widow in the hand of Elijah (3 Kings 17) , and in the hand of Elisha the son of the Shunammite (4 Kings 4) .

Moses : Since you believe that he has already performed these miracles, what prevents you from believing that he will at some time perform the same miracles again?

Peter : I do not deny that the Almighty can raise the dead (1 Cor. 15) , but that all men will be raised by Him on the day of judgment (John 5; Matt. 24) , and I confess and believe it, but what you add, namely, that they will inhabit the earth again, I do not believe.

Moses : Nor should this seem to you to be contrary to faith, since, having been resurrected by Elijah or Elisha, he afterwards [582C] led a long life, had a wife, begot children, and fulfilled all the duties of his former human life.

Peter : It is true, and it could well have been, either by a miracle or by the prayer of the holy man, because the body had not yet decayed, although we would never believe it unless we had a prophetic testimony to this. But those things which are wont to happen contrary to custom, the faith of men is not wont to receive easily, unless they are confirmed by the authority of such prophets, whom the favor of all the hearers applauds, and that the prophets themselves speak most openly. But no prophet pronounced this openly. But while your teachers have said this, yet none of those who were before Christ [582D] foretold this. But your followers found this error so that the Jewish nation would persist in its unbelief.

Moses : And if our teachers have invented these stars for the purpose of seducing us, what will you answer about the prophets who do the same? For Isaiah says: Your dead shall live: my slain shall rise again. Awake and sing praises, you who dwell in the dust (Isa. 26) .

Peter : These words by no means show that your dead will be raised to inhabit the earth, since if we pay careful attention to what is said we will not find the resurrection of the dead there clearly foreshadowed. Otherwise the Prophet will seem to be contradicting himself, since he said in the above: The dying will not live, the giants will not rise again (ibid.) . Therefore, what [583A] both disagrees with the use of nature, and introduces a contradiction into the prophet himself, should by no means be explained according to the whim of each person and contrary to the sense of nature, since it can be understood otherwise by sound sense, unless necessary reason compels it to be so accepted.

Moses : It is delightful to hear how in another way the verse of this sentence can be rightly understood.

Peter : This word can be understood in two ways, namely, that either it is believed to be said of the resurrection of the last judgment, or that it signifies the escape from captivity under the name of resurrection. But this sense seems to pertain more to the letter, since a little earlier the prophet had wept over the captivity and affliction of his people, and immediately brought the consolation of divine promise and piety, saying: The dead live , and the rest. [583B] Nor does he insinuate that this escape will happen at any uncertain time, but after a short time, saying: Go, my people, into your chambers, shut your doors about you, hide yourself for a little while, until the indignation has passed (ibid.) . These are fittingly referred to captivity.

Moses : Can you ever object to anything like this in the words of Daniel? For he says: Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to eternal life, and some to shame, that they may see it forever (Dan. 12) .

Peter : This authority differs so much from your intention, the more clearly it is understood to have been said about the last judgment. For in that resurrection, they will go either into eternal life or into eternal reproach (John 5; Matt. 25) . [583C]

Moses : Can you find anything that you can say against the prophet Ezekiel? Who, after raising many dead by divine power, also prophesied about the future in these words: Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will open your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel (Ezek. xxxvii) . And a little later: And I will make you rest upon your own soil (ibid.) . Behold, the prophet most clearly and undoubtedly shows that the dead will be raised and will inhabit their lands.

Peter : We must first discuss this, so that we may be able to recognize in what manner He raised them, namely, whether or not they fulfilled all the functions of the human body after the resurrection. For this too is a matter of doubt to many [583D] .

Moses : As our teachers testify, he did not raise them up in a dream, but while they were awake. And to make this more evident, they say that all the dead whom he raised were of the tribe of Ephraim, who are said to have died in the country of the Philistines during the exodus of the people from Egypt. But this raising was a sign of the future, so that just as all of them were raised up by him, so all the rest are believed to be raised up at some time.

Peter : How did He grant them a true and perfect resurrection, when He did not at all restore to them a rational soul?

Moses : How do you contend that they did not receive a rational [584A] soul, when the same prophet prophesies in such words by the command of God to the spirit? Thus says the Lord: Come from the four winds, O spirit, and breathe upon these slain, and they shall live. And I prophesied as the Lord had commanded, and the spirit entered into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army (ibid.) .

Peter : This spirit which is commanded to come from the four winds is by no means a rational soul, but one which is made from the conjunction of the four elements.

Moses : From your words it is understood that the corporeal spirit is one thing, the rational soul another: and if this is so, then their works are also diverse.

Peter : No wise man doubts that this is so.

Moses : I desire to hear the difference between both. [584B]

Peter : The corporeal spirit is indeed the lightest and most subtle body, which in the body of man is made of the conjunction of the four elements, and from that place is spread into all the veins, and gives life to the body itself, and breath, and a constant pulse through the arteries, and the natural movement of man, which is corrupted together with the body which it vivifies. But the rational soul is a substance subsisting by itself, incorporeal, causing the body to move by voluntary movement, yet itself immovable and permanent, even in the body to which it adheres, corruptible, existing incorruptible, and even being joined to the genus, perfecting the species of man.

Moses : I remember that many before us said that the rational soul is created from the conjunction of the four elements. When this conjunction is made subtly, having no density in itself, they said that the soul is subtle; but if it has any obscurity or thickness, they said that the soul is sluggish and dull, proving it by such an argument. From the adjunction, they say, we often see such things produced, namely colors, virtues, and works, which if taken separately and separately, do not come from any of them. Similarly, also from fire and air, water, and earth, when joined together, a rational soul is produced, which, however, if sought in each, is not found manifest.

Peter : If a rational soul is born from a body with a perfect conjunction of the four elements, then the soul’s strength must fail when the body’s strength fails. But if the soul’s strength fails when the body’s strength fails , then it follows that with the beginning of the dissolution of bodily vigor, the soul’s strength is also dissolved. But if it is granted that when the body is corrupted, it is concluded that the soul is also corrupted.

Moses : The correct order of consequence demonstrates that this is how it happens.

Peter : But the conclusion of the argument challenges the faith of the eyes. For it often happens that the more the body weakens and approaches death, the more the soul recovers, as it sometimes happens to many sick people, that the closer it is to death, the more it remembers with greater insight and provides for everything, and in the very moment in which the soul is better able to thrive, the man dies. But when, as I said, the soul thrives with such insight, then all the functions of the body become more diminished . We find, moreover, that when the elderly and most people have reached such old age that there is no bodily strength in them, then the soul is powerful with counsel and all wisdom. Hence, therefore, an evident reason is gathered, that the soul does not at all come from the rational union of the elements, but, as we said above, is a self-subsisting substance. For whatever exists in number one and remains immutable in its nature, is susceptible to contraries, and substance is certainly self-subsisting. Since, then, the soul is one in number, like the soul of Plato, Socrates, or any single man, and is not changed in any way in its nature, but is susceptible to good and evil, it necessarily remains that it is a self-subsisting substance. But in this [585B] way it is proven that it is not corporeal. Every quality of the body is subject to human senses. But the qualities of any thing are subject to no corporeal sense, nor is it itself to be called corporeal. But the qualities of the soul are good and evil, which are perceived by no corporeal sense. Therefore the soul is not corporeal. Likewise the same is proven by another argument. Every body is perceived by some corporeal sense. But the soul is not subject to any corporeal sense. Therefore it is not corporeal. This soul also is not corrupted by a corrupt body. For the corruption of the body occurs in three ways: either when something withers and dries up, as we see in trees and herbs, or when it suffers loss of itself, as salt or hay when it is moved from place to place, or when it is dissolved, as a house when it is destroyed, or some vessel when it is broken. None of these things happens except either in the body or in something that happens to the body. But the soul is neither a body nor is it founded in the body. Therefore it is not corrupted in any of these ways. Moreover , this rational soul itself completes the species of man, since it itself makes man rational.

Moses : I have clearly recognized how the corporeal spirit differs from the rational soul. But since philosophers say that there are three souls in men, I demand that you explain what these are.

Peter : Those three which they call souls are the vegetable soul, the bestial soul, and the rational soul.

Moses : I ask you to tell me the works and duties of each of these. [585D]

Peter : It is desirable to ascend gradually from the lowest to the highest. The vegetable soul has two functions. For it causes things to grow, and it provides nourishment to the bodies themselves. But it does neither of these except through the four powers of nature, namely the appetitive, the retentive, the digestive, and the expulsive. And this soul is found in all plants growing from the earth, and in all species of animals. But the functions of the bestial soul are truly the senses of the body, and also movement from place to place. But this is found only in animals, and this soul is united with the corporeal spirit, as it were, by certain bonds. But the functions of the rational soul are these, to meditate, to remember after meditation, to discern, [586A] to confirm something fixed and certain, to have a memory, and to wish to discuss the causes of things, and after discussing to arrive at the truth of the matter. This remains in no species of animal, except in man alone.

Moses : In what way these three souls are united in one man: two indeed in irrational animals. But the third alone in all things born of the earth, I both know not, and I greatly admire.

Peter : I have read in the books of certain philosophers that when it pleased the Creator of all living and green things to procreate bodies, he mixed four elements into one, and tempered their qualities with one another, and from that mixing the above-mentioned bodies were procreated. But from the temperance of qualities came four for [586B] natures, which we have mentioned above, namely the powers of appetite, retention, digestion and expulsive. Now when all such bodies were procreated, the vegetable soul adhered to them and exercised its functions in them, namely by growing, nourishing and generating. But the animal soul was joined to the more subtle ones, so that it could perform its functions in them, namely by performing sensation and movement from place to place. But the rational soul associated itself with that which was the most subtle, the lightest and the most temperate, and most suitable for assuming reason, and it performed its functions there, which we have mentioned. In this way, therefore, according to the will and disposition of God, all three of those souls came together in man, in irrational animals only two. [586C] But the third is only in trees and herbs which grow from the earth.

Moses : Well, for your sake, you have shown me what I was unaware of, but one thing remains which I require to be explained to me. For since all bodies are composed of four elements, I greatly wonder why some exist lighter than others.

Peter : This occurs either from the diversity of the quantities of the elements, unequally adjoined in the creation of bodies, or from the diversity of the moderation of their qualities. But if you desire to know more broadly, you will find it in the books of the philosophers, because we have neither time nor place to explain this kind of thing at present; it is better for us to return to your [586D] proposition.

Moses : Up to this point you have treated philosophically enough what the distance is between the corporeal spirit and the rational soul. But since the simple minds of the less learned do not penetrate the depths of subtle reasons, I beg you, if you are able, prove by testimony the same difference between the law or the prophets, so that those whose minds have not been enlightened by the gravity of profound reasons may at least be given credence by authority.

Peter : At the beginning of the book of Genesis, Moses the prophet says: God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul (Gen. 2) , namely, by the breath of life a corporeal spirit, but by the living soul a rational, intelligent soul. [587A]

Moses : Through the breath of life we ​​can understand the rational soul.

Peter : What you say cannot stand. For in the same book. in the following it is written: All flesh that moved on the earth was consumed, of birds, of living creatures, of beasts and creeping things that creep on the earth, all men, and everything in which there is the breath of life, died on the earth (Gen. VII) . Behold, having enumerated the birds, the living creatures of beasts and creeping things, or men, he suddenly brought in, everything in which there is the breath of life died. If therefore by the breath of life he had meant a rational soul, then all have a rational soul. But since no creature except man has a rational soul, it is clear that by the breath of life he did not mean a rational soul. Solomon [587B] also the wisest, feeling the same, says: Who knows whether the spirit of the sons of Adam ascends upward, and whether the spirit of the beasts descends downward? (Eccles. III.) Behold, the spirit of man, since it remains after the incorruptible body, ascends upward, but the spirit of the beasts, which is corrupted and perishes together with the body, descends downward.

Moses : I have clearly known that one is a rational soul, another a corporeal spirit, from all parts, and that the corporeal spirit itself is made from the conjunction of the four elements. Therefore, the spirit which the prophet Ezekiel commanded to come from the four parts of the world by the command of God (Ezek. XXXVII) , I know that it must be understood as a corporeal spirit, and I confess that I find no authority concerning the dead [587C] whom he raised that they received a rational soul, although this is believed by many. However, the resurrection itself, however it was effected, was a sign of a future resurrection, and I say and believe that God, namely, will someday raise our dead who will once again inhabit the earth, as the same prophet showed above, saying: And you will know that I the Lord, when I open your graves, and bring you out of your graves, O my people, and put my spirit within you, and you will live, and I will cause you to rest on your own ground (ibid.) .

Peter : This could certainly be said of the resurrection of the dead on the day of judgment.

Moses : If he wanted to be understood of that judgment, he should not have said at the end of the sentence, “I will make you rest upon your own soil .” For then it will be lawful for no one to rest upon his own soil.

Peter : This rest can be taken in this way, as signifying the soul resting in the body, which is not undeservedly expressed by the name of the earth from which it is taken, as is further witnessed by Scripture, which frequently calls it by the name of earth. For Moses says: God formed man of the slime of the earth (Gen. 2) . Behold, man is made perfect with the conjunction of the four elements, being said to be made of the earth alone, which is one element, but not unfittingly, because by the name of earth he signifies the body. We can therefore understand what he says, he will make them rest upon their ground, [588A] that the soul will return to the body, and both will be judged (1 Cor. 13; 2 Cor. 3; 1 Thess. 4) . But this sense in the explanation of that prophecy cannot be conceived by a sound intellect, so that neither any Scripture nor any reason seems to contradict them. But whatever is said in the obscure sayings of the prophets can be taken in many ways, so that in explaining it, one does not deviate from the testimony of Scripture, nor from the path of reason; there is nothing inappropriate if one explains it in a different, but just sense. But if any one’s explanation is such that it is or seems to be foreign either to Scripture or to reason, it must be judged by a just judgment to be without force. Therefore, since your explanation is found to be contrary to both Scripture and reason, it must be rejected by a judgment of equity. [588B]

Moses : It is a pleasure to hear how my opinion is contrary to Scripture.

Peter : The prophet David says of the dead thus: Their graves are their houses for ever; their tabernacles for posterity (Ps. XLVIII) . Also on the same subject: He shall go even to the posterity of his fathers, and shall never see light (ibid.) . Also elsewhere: As the wounded sleep in the graves, whom thou rememberest no more, and they are cast out of thy hand (Ps. LXXXVII) . Job also, feeling the same, says: Remember that my life is wind, and mine eye shall not return to see good, neither shall the sight of man behold me. Thine eyes are upon me, and I shall not remain. As the cloud is consumed and passeth away, so he that goeth down to hell shall not ascend, nor return any more to his house [588C] , neither shall his place know him any more (Job VII) . The same elsewhere: I will go and return no more to the land of darkness (Job X) . Also the same: When a man sleepeth, he shall not rise again (Job XIV) . Solomon also feels in harmony with these, saying: The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing more, nor do they have any more reward, because the memory of them is forgotten. Love and hatred and envy will also perish together, and they have no part in this world or in the work that is done under the sun (Ecclesiastes 9) . Behold, the wisest Solomon, in agreement with the authorities of others, states that the dead are not to be resurrected, namely, to inhabit the earth, and yet he states that they will rise again someday, saying that they have no part in the things that are done under the sun, that is, in earthly things, thereby see [588D] although hinting that they will have a part in those things that are done above the sun, that is, in heavenly things.

Moses : Half of the reasons or authorities introduced would be enough for any wise man. However, since you have said that our exposition is contrary both to Scripture and to reason, it remains to be shown in what it disagrees with reason.

Peter : Do you not believe that when your dead are raised at the coming of the anointed one, Adam also and Seth, Methuselah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Moses and Aaron, and the rest of the patriarchs and prophets, and all the righteous who died before his coming, will rise together with them, and performing and enduring all the duties of the human body, and remembering the former rites [589A] , will inhabit the earth again in the ancient manner, and Aaron and his sons will offer sacrifice as of old, and will be clothed with priestly garments by Moses?

Moses : I cannot deny that our teachers have said everything in this way.

Peter : Who, I ask, will then be the high priest?

Moses : Who can be greater than Aaron?

Peter : What then will happen to Eleazar and many others, who were once all high priests? Will they be all high priests at the same time, or will they be deprived of the dignity of that order? If you say that while Aaron is alive they cannot exercise the high priesthood, what will then be the benefit of resurrection to them? For it will be more to their shame and inconvenience to rise again than to their honor and benefit , and it would have been better for them to remain in death than to lead a miserable life, although the law of Moses is also destroyed in this act, by which it is commanded that no one who has been elevated to a higher order should be reduced further to a lower one. But if you grant that all will be equal in the order of the high priesthood, you take away Aaron’s honor, because no one among many equals can have an excellent honor. Moreover, many temples are necessary for many high priests. From this, therefore, another incongruity follows, as well as the destruction of the law, which commands that there should be neither more than one priest nor more than one temple.

Moses : I have no argument that can stand in the way of your reason . For I see that either we must concede that we will have a new law, or that the law of Moses cannot possibly stand in its entirety.

Peter : I rejoice that the light of truth is now partly shining into your mind. Tell me, then, are you going to have many kings, or one?

Moses : We must certainly have one, as the prophet Ezekiel states, saying: “They shall all have one shepherd” (Ezek. XXXVII) . For if there are many, since they will not be able to be in agreement, they will deprive the kingdom of peace.

Peter : You have begun to answer wisely. But can you declare who that king will be?

Moses , the anointed one, by whose coming we are to escape captivity, and our dead are to be raised, [589D] and rightly should have the control of our government.

Peter : Well, what you say could be, if that anointed one were man and God. But if, as you believe, he will be only man, what then will Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob do, and also Moses and the other prophets? Will they be subject to his dominion?

Moses : It should not seem strange if they were subject to his power. For so Samuel was subject to Saul, and Elijah to King Ahab, and Elisha to Joram, and many other prophets to their kings.

Peter : The similitude of the present things is not fitting. For, even if the prophets, who were not kings at all, were subject to kings, it is not therefore fitting or necessary that a prophet king should be subject to any earthly king , as Abraham and David and Joshua, each of whom was a king and a prophet, and Moses also, who was both king and prophet and lawgiver of the whole people, to whom the book of the law bears such testimony, saying: There arose no more a prophet in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, in all the signs and wonders which he sent upon him (Deut. XXXIV) . Since these great and such men, having been resurrected, were subject to the law of that anointed one, would it not, I pray you, have been better for them not to have been resurrected? Moreover, two incongruities arise from this. For if Moses is therefore less, then the Scripture lies; but if he is greater, so much the more he is vilified.

Moses : Therefore, let us propose that Moses himself be king. [590B]

Peter : What then will that anointed one do? What will Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob do, whom Moses himself, while he was alive, held in such high esteem (Exod. 32) , that when he implored something from God, he prayed that he would obtain it for their love? If you pay attention, you are in great danger. But I want you to tell me, if you know, will those who are to be raised from the dead then have the nature and power to beget children?

Moses : So that I may hear what you have to answer, I will deny that they will beget.

Peter : I want you to answer first whether nature will deny the duty of generation in them, or whether the law’s command will prohibit it.

Moses : I guarantee that they will be bound by the precept of the law .

Peter : Since then the law of Moses commands that children be born, you show that you will have a new law, which is contrary to your faith.

Moses : I will prove that nature, not law, prevented their generation, but by changing times.

Peter : What you say cannot stand. For the hearing is averse, and the mind shrinks from believing, that there is an animal which by nature cannot be able to generate, unless by some intervention it loses the power of generating. But if you say that the nature itself is new, you should not say that they are to be resurrected, but that a new creature will be like the first in form only, not in its whole nature, for they will eat and drink, but will not [590D] generate.

Moses : Whatever we have said thus far in the changed argument, we have said not so much from the defense of the truth as from the entanglements of syllogisms. For our faith is that, just as the other duties of humanity, so too will they have the nature of generating, so much so that we believe that a woman will conceive daily and give birth daily.

Peter : What you say is scarcely audible to human ears. For I must confess that what you say is true, namely, that all will believe in the anointed and be resurrected: but since they would beget children every day, surely neither would the earth contain them even if it were twice as large, or the sea would become land as well, and the space would be so narrow [591A] that they would not have fields to cultivate, nay, there would always be a struggle and quarrel among them for the narrowness of the land. When all are resurrected, will each man return to the wife he had, or will he have another new one?

Moses : Everyone will certainly regain his own. For this will be the consummation of joy.

Peter : Then that woman who died after having had three or more husbands, in the resurrection, which of these will she have? (Matt. 22; Luke 20; Mark 12.) For if you answer that she would have the first, the law of Moses will be destroyed, which says that after the second she should not return to her first husband; but if you answer that she would have another husband than the first, in that also is the destruction of the law, for the same commandment, that she cannot marry anyone while her first husband is alive, nor does he repudiate her (Lev. 20) . But behold, since so many have been raised, and so many have been born after them, will any of these ever die?

Moses : Thenceforth they will remain immortal.

Peter : Reason demonstrates that what you say cannot stand. For since man has eaten, drunk, and had the habit of begetting, it is necessary that he be composed of the four elements. But whatever is composed in such a way must also be corrupted. Therefore necessity concludes that they too, since they are thus composed, are subject to the corruption of death. Again, if they were immortal, they are by no means subject to the special definition, which is now that of man. For the definition of man is a rational, mortal animal. But this definition cannot be predicated of immortal [591C] men. Wherefore neither is a special man. Whence it is rightly concluded by this means that those whom you call men are not men, which is inconvenient. Again, as we said above, the space of the whole earth could not suffice for their multitude, if we asserted the greatest immortal multitude, since we said above that they would beget without intermission, and if they were placed one on top of the other like stones, they would by no means be enclosed in the doubled space of the earth.

Moses : Since I cannot defend that they are immortal, I will at least grant that they are mortal.

Peter : Since you grant that they will die, I want you to say whether that resurrection will be for them a punishment or a crown. [591D]

Moses : That resurrection will be for glory and honor, so that the anointed may behold glory and kingdom, and have perfect joy of body and heart.

Peter : Regarding the state of the good until they rise again, I want to hear what you think, namely, whether they remain in punishment or in peace until the time of resurrection.

Moses : It is most certain that they will enjoy the bliss of quiet with God.

Peter : Since, as you assert, that resurrection will be for punishment rather than for a crown. For since they now boast of the gift of eternal life, why will they be thrust back again into the labor camps of the body, where they will be tormented again by hunger, thirst, vigils, and various and innumerable [592A] torments? Moreover, according to your opinion, they will endure the fear and punishment of the second death. From all these things it is sufficiently clear to everyone that that resurrection will be more to their shame than to their honor and glory.

Moses : And if they now remain in rest and delights, from which they will return to the distresses of the body, yet such great joy will it be for them to behold His presence, and to rejoice in His kingdom, to dwell in Jerusalem as of old, to sacrifice in the temple according to the ancient rite, that there will be no bodily pain for them, and the rest which they now have will afterwards be considered the least.

Peter : What you say is a departure from the path of truth. For no honor and glory of the present world can be compared with the delights and rest of the eternal [592B] life, because no one of this world can enjoy the delights for a single moment without labor and pain. But the glory of that blessed life, without any intervening trouble, remains perpetual and continuous, especially since your teachers testify that all the honor and glory of this world is equal to the delights of that life, which is one to sixty. Moreover, it is clear to anyone, unless someone is devoid of all reason, that it is an incomparably greater joy to see God than such as you say.

Moses : Whatever we have said thus far, we have said for the sake of reasoning and argument. For this is the certainty of our faith, that they are to be resurrected, [592C] to eat and drink, or to beget and to inhabit nature and use, and after a thousand years have passed, to be transferred to the kingdom of perpetual happiness and immortality without any death.

Peter : If you grant immortals, you return to the former, which is not fitting. For within a thousand years, their multitude will have spread to such an extent that they will by no means be able to be contained within the earth’s circumference. Much less, therefore, will there be any space left for cultivating the fields. Moreover, what we have said above is also in question, because the patriarchs, prophets, and all the just, who were already shining in glory, are subjected to new punishments, being brought back to their bodies. Likewise another: For everything that eats, drinks, and begets, delights [592D] and grieves , is undoubtedly composed of the four elements. But how can that which is composed of them, and is affected by the aforementioned passions, be transferred to that kingdom without change, with the same passions? But to grant all things, what are you going to say about those who will be born after the coming of the anointed? Do you assert that they will die or not?

Moses : They will certainly die at the end of Christ’s kingdom.

Peter : What then will their parents do at their death? For it would be better for them not to rise again than to endure so much pain from their death.

Moses : Let us say, then, that they will not die. [593A]

Peter : Then the Scripture lies which says, namely David in the Psalm: What man is he that shall live and not see death? (Ps. 88.) Therefore, if you consider, on every side are the paths of reason and escape closed to you, because in no way can the resurrection of the dead be done in the way you say, for which reason we have above destroyed the same with the testimony of the law. How then, brother, can your soul indulge in listening to such fables? Therefore pray with me for the mercy of the Lord, that as he has freed me, so he may absolve you also from the error of this unbelief. Amen.

Title IV.

To show the Jews the whole law of Moses, unless we observe a little, and that little does not please God.

Moses : I do not undeservedly thank the Illuminator of Hearts, who, though late, has driven away the darkness of such blindness from our minds. I also do not unjustly return the greatest thanks to you, who, by the light of the most open and impregnable reasons, have removed this error from me, the unbeliever. Now, if it pleases you, proceeding from the beginning in order, open the next part of our proposals. For you said that we do the least thing about the precepts of the law, and that this itself does not please God. Which I eagerly desire to hear why or with what intention you say.

Peter : What I said about you observing the least of the commandments of the law, needs neither authority nor reason, since it is clearly evident, to be proved, as can be proved in the very sacrifices which you do not celebrate. [593C] For neither the victim of the lamb, as you formerly sacrificed at the time of morning and evening, nor the holocausts of the new moons, Sabbaths, and ceremonies, nor the libations of bread, wine, and oil, which you have likewise put aside (Num. 28; Ps. 80) , nor even the daily preparation of the table, on which your fathers were accustomed to serve the bread of the shewbread always on the seventh day (Exod. 25) . They also prepared the lamps in the morning and lit them in the evening, and at the same times they caused incense to be burned in the temple, and also the ordinations and anointings of the priests, and the various changes of their garments (Exod. XXX) , nor did they observe the many varieties in the consumption of food, nor the changes of the ministries each week, according to the precepts of the law [593D] (Lev. VIII) . They also ordained the Levites chosen according to the law (Deut. XIV) , and had them play on musical instruments as Moses had established (Levit. III; Psal. LXXX) . But they redeemed the firstborn of man and unclean animals with a price (Num. X) , and offered the firstfruits of the trees to the altar for the Lord’s food (Exod. XIII) , who entrusted them to the priests for food (Lev. XXIII) . The fruit remaining on the trees for three years did not contribute anything useful. In the fourth year all their fruit was sanctified to the praiseworthy Lord. They also offered the firstfruits of their fruits to the priests (Num. XVIII; Exod. XXXVI) , and of the two tenths they gave one to the Levites, and carried the other to Jerusalem to be eaten in the holy place [594A] . The Levites also paid the tenth of the tenth which they received to the same priests. Now the seventh year was the Sabbath of the land, but the fiftieth was the jubilee (Lev. XXV) . The law also of all leprosy and the trace of leprosy (Lev. XIII) , and of the scars of houses, and of the bright spots of the eruptions, and of the various kinds of changed colors, that it might be known at what time something was clean or unclean, was subject to the judgment of the priests. The law also of him who suffered from the flow of seed and of the woman who was separated at her menstrual times (Lev. XV) , and the sacrifices of their purification, were established by the priests. If anyone entered the tent of a dead man, or touched the corpse of a slain man, or his bone, or his grave , both he and all the vessels of the tent were unclean, until they were cleansed by sprinkling the ashes of the burnt heifer (Deut. XIV) .. Moreover, there are many other precepts in the law (Lev. 4) , which you have long since completely disregarded.

Moses : We are not to be rebuked at all for the precepts of the law which we do not observe at all, since we are exiles from our own country, and are deprived of a temple and of the law.

Peter : You have put forward an invalid excuse. For if your sacrifices had been acceptable to God, he would not have cast you out of the land so that you could not fulfill those things which he had commanded.

Moses : Far be it from him that he should have driven us out of our father’s land, lest we should be able to obey his commandments, since it would not be the duty of a wise and just man to command anything which he would afterwards forbid to be done. And [594C] again, why did we not do them, that he should have reason to demand of us, but because we sinned in his sight, he was angry with us, and cast us out of the land where we cannot fulfill his commandments. Therefore our impossibility will not be to blame, until the time comes when we return to the land of our habitation, and then we will fulfill by deed what the Lord has commanded us, and our sacrifice will be acceptable to him, as the prophet Malachi testifies, saying: And the sacrifice of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to God as in the days of old, and as in the years of old (Mal. iii.) .

Peter : The testimony of this prophecy has nothing to do with our purpose. For if you discuss the preceding and following history, you will find that it is said [594D] about the sacrifices of the temple that was built in the time of Ezra (3 Esdr. 8) . But about your exile I confirm the same thing that I said, namely that for this reason he cast you out of the land, that you should not make sacrifices, celebrate new moons, or any festivals according to the ancient custom, nor defile the thresholds of the temple. For when God commanded sacrifices to be made through Moses, He certainly did it so that those who rightly believed in Him and loved Him with all their hearts would observe the precepts of His law with all due diligence and purity, not because they treated the law of God unworthily by committing theft, murder, robbery, and other vices, and also by sacrificing to idols, and were defiled by many contagions, and were about to sacrifice to the true God, they would enter His holy temple unworthily, as the prophet Jeremiah testifies, saying: Behold , you trust in lying words that will not profit you, stealing, murdering, committing adultery, swearing falsely, burning incense to Baalim, and walking after other gods whom you have not known, and you have come and stood before Me in this house, which is called by My name, and have said: We are delivered, because we have done all these abominations (Jer. 7:11) . Therefore God abhorred your works and your victims, with songs, and cast you out of His temple and land, as the prophet Isaiah most openly suggests in such words: To what purpose is the multitude of your victims to Me, says the Lord? I am full, I have no desire for burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fattened animals, and for the blood of calves and lambs and goats. When you came before My sight, who required these things from your hands, that you should walk in My courts? And offer no more sacrifices in vain . Incense is an abomination to Me. I will not endure New Moons, Sabbaths, and other festivals. Your assemblies are wicked. My soul hates your new moons and your solemnities; they have become a nuisance to Me. I have been weary in bearing them . Which Jeremiah also confirms, saying: To what purpose do you bring Me frankincense from Sheba, and sweet-smelling cane from a far country? Your burnt offerings are not accepted, and your victims are not pleasing to Me (Jer. 6) . Likewise elsewhere: When they fast, I will not hear their prayers; and if they offer burnt offerings and victims, I will not accept them (Jer. XIV) . Of this also the prophet Amos says: I hate and reject your festivals, and I will not smell the fragrance of your assemblies. But if you bring me burnt offerings and your offerings, I will not accept them, and I will not regard the vows of your fat ones . I will take away the tumult of your songs, and I will not hear the songs of your lyre (Amos V) . Of this again Malachi says: I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will not receive an offering at your hand (Mal. 1) . And the Psalmist: Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but hast prepared mine ears (Ps. 39) . And through the Prophet Hosea he saith thus: I will cause all her joy to cease, her solemnity, her new moon, her Sabbath, and all her feast days (Hosea 2) , and many others; which it is too long to enumerate. These are the chief and greater precepts of your law, which, as the prophetic authority and the present age indicate, God will not at all take from your hand.

Moses : All the words of the prophets which you have quoted, [595D] we both say and believe, were foretold concerning the captivity of Babylon, and were fulfilled in the same. For after that the divinity also looked upon us, and accepted our sacrifices.

Peter : My understanding agrees very well with your explanation. For when God brought you out of captivity and brought you back to the temple and your homeland, it is clear that he fulfilled the threats of the prophets, and pardoned your sins and considered your victims acceptable. But when you later returned to your former crimes, you were punished again with the former penalties, and the greater and more severe the second captivity was than the first, the greater the indignation of God against you is clear in this than in the other. [596A]

Moses : In this word you show yourself to be contrary to yourself, when you said above that the men of that time were religious and just, and faithfully kept the precepts of the law, but now you confirm that their works were displeasing to God.

Peter : According as Moses the lawgiver had received the law from God, and had set it before them, I do not deny that they kept it worthily. But after Christ came, who revealed the secrets of the prophets, and having taken away the veil of the law, he revealed the spiritual sense which was hidden (Luke 24:11) , from then on they ought to keep the legal institutions not according to the letter which is written, but according to the life-giving spirit (2 Cor. 3:11) , because he who had given the law understood it better than the prophets who had been his hearers. And because they neglected to do [596B] , therefore God refused to accept their ancient observances, just as he also forbade the practice of the ancient rites which they had cultivated before the law was received by the hand of Moses (Lev. 18:11) , namely, to marry two sisters together, or to take one’s aunt as a wife, and to eat all kinds of animals (Deut. 14:11) . These and similar things were not held to be wrong before the law was given, but afterwards no one could do them without sin.

Moses : Our law, as Moses gave it, and the entire generation of our fathers from ancient times respected it, and so I believe and think that it should also be observed by us in all things.

Peter : If the old observances of the law had been acceptable to the Lord, as long as you fulfilled them in deed, [596C] he would never have cast you out of the temple and country. But in order to acquiesce in your words, I will show you that you must be refuted by your own judgment, since, as I said, you observe nothing but a few of the precepts of the law, and you do not keep it entirely as the law commands, since you do not offer victims or other things that are necessary and prescribed on the Sabbaths, or on your solemnities, or on your fasts. Even the prayers which you offer to the Lord instead of sacrifices do not ascend to his ears to be heard. Nor can you or dare to ascribe this to my malevolence, since your own teachers testify that God has not accepted your prayers since the time when the temple was destroyed. Which the prophet Jeremiah also confirms by the authority of the words: [596D] When I cried and pleaded, he shut out my prayer (Lam. iii.) . And again: You have set a cloud against you, that prayer may not pass through (Lam. iii) . And Isaiah: And when you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; and when you multiply prayer, I will not hear (Isa. 1) . Moreover, you are all unclean according to the law of Moses. For there is not one among you who is not defiled by the touch of the dead (Num. 19) . Which stain, namely, cannot be removed except by sprinkling the ashes of a red heifer (Lev. 15) , which since you cannot have at present, you cannot be freed from uncleanness. Also, all your women are believed to be defiled by a flow, since the former priests are absent, whose judgment was left to distinguish between menstruation and the defiled by the flow of blood, and the sons of defilement. All [597A] of your food is also proved defiled by the judgment of the law. Since, therefore, O Moses, your whole nation is found to be polluted, all your women polluted, and therefore all your children suffer from pollution, and all your food is unclean, and their prayers do not reach the ears of God, nor do their works please him. How, I pray, can they have any security that they will either have an end in evil, or that they are of any value with God? For she has delivered me from their error I give due thanks, and I devoutly pray that she may deliver you also. Amen.

Title V.

On the destruction of the Saracen law, and The folly of their opinions must be refuted.

Moses . So far the faith of the Jewish nation was how [597B] vain and inconstant in all things, and how unreasonable and ungrateful their obedience to God was, or why you departed from that same faith, and you have given the most evident and proven reasons, and you have shown me how much error I have hitherto remained in. But since you have abandoned your father’s faith, I wonder why you have chosen the faith of the Christians and not rather of the Saracens with whom you have always conversed and been brought up. For I am pleased, as I can, to bring in any obstacles I can in this sect, so that you may claim a reason for this as well as for ours, by which it may be destroyed. For as I have always conversed and been brought up with them, you have read books, you understand their language, for in order to assume their person in me, you would certainly have chosen this one above the others , which is evidently more honorable and capable than the rest. The law is indeed broad, keeping many commandments about the delights of this present life, in which it is shown that the divine love for them was greatest, and at the same time promises ineffable joys to its worshippers. If you seek the root of which law, you will find it founded on the unshaken foundation of reason. Of which thing, namely, that God loved them, and did not wish to burden them with many commandments, but spared them, is a sign that he commanded them to pray only five times a day, and that before they pray, that they may be perfectly clean, they wash their buttocks, their thighs, their hands, their arms, their face, their mouth, their nostrils, their ears, their eyes, their hair, most decently, and lastly their feet. Having done this, they proclaim publicly, believing in one God, who has none either similar or equal, and that Muhammad is his prophet. They also fast for a whole month in the year . But those who fast eat at night and abstain during the day, so that from that hour of the day when they can distinguish black from white by sight, until sunset, no one may eat, drink, or presume to defile himself by intercourse with his wife. But after sunset, until the twilight of the following day, they may always use food and drink, and their own wives, as each pleases. However, if he is burdened by illness or is on a journey, as long as the time of the illness or the journey lasts, he may eat and use whatever he wishes, so long as either the illness or the necessity of the journey [598A]He has fulfilled less, and will amend it later when it is permitted. But once every year, for the sole purpose of recognition, all are commanded to go to the house of God, which is in Mecca, to be seen, and there to worship and to go around it dressed in seamless coverings, and to lay stones as the law commands, namely, between the thighs, backwards, for stoning the devil. Now this house they say that Adam, when he was exiled from paradise, built for the Lord, and that it was a place of prayer for all his sons until it came to Abraham. But Abraham, the faithful servant of God, strengthened and restored it and in it he vowed vows to the Lord and offered sacrifices, and after his death he left it to his son named Ishmael, and that it should be a permanent house of prayer for him and all his sons for many years, until Mahomet was born ; at whose birth God promised the same to himself and to all his generations, as an inheritance, as they say. Moreover, the adversaries of God and their prophets are commanded to plunder, capture, kill, and in every way persecute and destroy, unless they repent and wish to convert to their faith, or pay the prescribed tax of servitude. All flesh is also forbidden to them, except the flesh and blood of swine, nor of carrion, for food. They also reject whatever has been consecrated in any thing except the name of God. In addition to this, they are permitted to have four legitimate wives at the same time, and each one who is divorced may always take another, so that the number never exceeds four. In the case of divorce this is also observed, that he may divorce her up to the third time and receive her again. It will be lawful for him to have as many slaves and captives as he wishes, but he will also have free power to sell and buy them again, so that, after having made her pregnant once, he can never bind himself to the yoke of another servitude. Moreover, they are allowed to have wives from their own kindred, so that the bloodline may increase, and the bond of friendship may grow stronger between them. The judgments concerning the recovery of possessions are such among them, as you yourself know very well to be among the Hebrews, that the claimant must prove it with witnesses, and the denier must once exonerate himself by oath. But they accept no witnesses except very suitable and approved persons, and whom they can trust without an oath . [598D] In some other respects they observe the custom of the Mosaic law, that whoever sheds the blood of a man is to be punished with the same penalty (Gen. 9) , and whoever is caught in adultery is to be stoned with the adulteress (Lev. 20).. But he who has committed fornication with any other, shall be subject to eighty lashes. Such a punishment has been prescribed for theft, that for the first and second time he shall suffer eighty lashes, for the third time he shall lose a hand, for the fourth he shall lose a foot, and whoever shall take away a limb from any man shall redeem it at a worthy price. All these precepts were therefore proposed by God, lest if any license to do so were too broad, the ruin of the whole nation should soon come. They are commanded to abstain from wine always, because it is the fome and the seedbed of all sin. These are the chief commandments of the law, because it would be a long [599A] stay in each one. Therefore God promised to himself and to his faithful prophet Muhammad, to those who believe and fulfill the commandments of his law, paradise, that is, a garden of delights, watered by flowing waters, in which they will have eternal residence. The shade of the trees will protect them, and they will not be afflicted by cold or heat. They will eat all kinds of fruits, all kinds of food. Whatever the appetite suggests to each one, he will immediately find before him. They will be clothed in silken garments of all colors. They will lie down in delight, and angels, ministering as butlers, will walk among them with vessels of gold and silver, offering milk in golden vessels, wine in silver vessels, and saying: Eat and drink in all joy, and what God has promised you, behold, is fulfilled. They will be joined to virgins whom [599B] neither human nor demonic contact has violated, more beautiful than hyacinths and corals in splendor. These goods will be given to believers, but those who do not believe in the true God and his prophet Muhammad will have an endless hellish punishment. However many sins a person may be guilty of and believe in God and Muhammad on the day of his death, he will be saved on the day of judgment by the intervention of Muhammad. These and many other things, which are too long to list, since you nevertheless knew the writings from a boy, and they were held in the greatest celebration by every nation of Saracens, why did you follow the Christian religion rather than the Muslim one, and would enjoy both a better present life and happiness in the future?

Peter : Although the context of your speech, having much [599C] beauty and sweetness, is capable of winning goodwill among those who consider bodily pleasures the highest good, no less than if Mahomet himself were present, yet it is strange that you should expect of me that you should insist on persuading me in this, in which you believe that I can in no way be deceived. For you are certain that it is not unknown to me who Mahomet was, how he made himself a prophet by a cunning pretense, and who his counselor was for this scheme. One thing, I think, remains uncertain to you, the very doctrine of Mahomet which they call an empty judge. When, therefore, you have heard his life and manners summarized in my narrative, then you will be able to easily distinguish whether I know or do not know what is true about it. [599D]

Moses : I eagerly await to hear that from you.

Peter : Mahomet, therefore, having been bereaved of both parents, spent his childhood under the patronage of his uncle Panephi, serving the worship of idols of that time with the entire Arab nation, as he himself testifies in his Koran, saying that God said to him: You were an orphan, and I took you in, in error, and I guided you, poor, and I enriched you. After a certain space of years, a mercenary with a certain noble widow named Khadijah, he soon so won the heart of his mistress that he took possession of all the things of marriage and was also the mistress of them. With whose wealth, having become very rich from the poorest of the poor, he burst into such pride of mind that he promised himself the kingdom of the Arabs, if he had not feared his own countrymen, because they would not hold him for king, when they were both equal and superior to him. However, thinking of a way by which he could become king, he wanted to pretend to be a prophet, namely, relying on that wit of eloquence which he had acquired among various nations, while he was engaged in trade, and this also because at that time the majority were soldiers and farmers, and they themselves were almost all idolaters, except for some who held the law of Moses heretically according to the Samaritans, and other Christians who were Nestorians and Jacobites. Now the Jacobites are heretics, named by a certain Jacob, who preached circumcision, and believed that Christ was not God, but only a righteous man, conceived by the Holy Spirit, and born of a virgin, yet not crucified [600B] nor dead. There was also at that time, in the region of Antioch, a certain archdeacon who was a friend of Mahomet, and this Jacobite, whence he was called to the council and condemned. Saddened by the shame of whose condemnation, he fled from the region and came to Mahomet. Therefore, Muhammad’s counsel was carried out by his efforts, which he had thought of and yet could not fulfill by himself. There were also two Jews from that Arabia whom we have called heretics, called Abdias and Cahbalahabar, and these indeed applied themselves to Muhammad, and gave him aid to complete his folly. And these three tempered the law of Muhammad, each according to his own heresy, and showed him to be saying such things on the part of God, which both the Jewish heretics and the Christian heretics [600C] who were in Arabia believed to be true, but who, however, did not want to believe of their own accord, nevertheless believed through force and fear of the sword. And indeed we do not know of any other prophecy or miracles of his, as we have heard of Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Elijah, and Elisha, whom we read of having performed many miracles.

Moses : And we believe most of the prophets, of whom we read of no miracles, such as Jeremiah, Obadiah, Amos, Hosea, and others.

Peter : Therefore, miracles are not to be sought in them, since they neither introduced any novelty into the law, nor did they in any way contradict the Mosaic doctrine, and we know in full part what they predicted. [600D]

There is no doubt that Moses , Noah, and Abraham, the patriarchs, gave new commandments from God, such as those concerning sacrifices, the eating of meat, circumcision, and other rites. Why, then, was faith exhibited to them by posterity without the light of miracles?

Peter : Therefore they are truly believed, because that prophet testifies to them, whose testimony is doubted by no one, namely Moses. How then is Muhammad to be received among the prophets, who is not comparable in any probability to any of the prophets?

Moses : Why do you say that the prophet was demonstrated with no probability, whom you have frequently heard denoted by miracles? Did he not call that prophet a brute animal, namely, a cow, Doregele? Did he not [601A] the moon, entering through both sleeves and proceeding from the bosom, renewing itself, designate him a miraculous prophet? Did he not, to make this known, milk his hand, milked, and offer the udder of a sheep to all the people who flocked to him, to drink its milk? It was also wonderful that when he called the fig tree to come to him, the tree did indeed come to him, and he himself ate of its fruit, and the arm of the sheep which had been poisoned was placed before him on a plate and spoke to him and said. Do not eat, for I am poisoned.

Peter : What you are pursuing is frivolous, and is not proven worthy of belief by the judgment of all of you, especially since Mahomet himself did not report anything of the kind in his Koran, but rather forbade anything that was not written about him in the Koran to be believed to be true at all. Of all, he says, many have lied a great deal [601B] , so that it may not happen to me, that only that is held true about me, which is proven by the authority of the Koran. Who, wishing to show why he did not perform a miracle, introduces the Lord speaking to him, saying: The Lord said to me: For this reason I do not permit you to perform miracles, because I fear that you may be contradicted in miracles, as other prophets. Therefore, by his own testimony it is shown that he did no sign of virtue; by what other signs is a true prophet proven? For the signs of a true prophet are the honesty of life, the performance of miracles, the firm truth of all that he says. The goodness of life in Muhammad was violence, by which he made himself preached as a prophet of God, rejoicing in theft and rapacity, and burning with the fire of lust to such an extent that he did not blush to defile his bed with adultery as if the Lord were commanding him, as is read of Zanab, daughter of Isa, the wife of Zet. The Lord, he says, commands you, Zet, to divorce your wife. Whose divorced wife he immediately married to himself. Whose prophecy he made more evident than any other, the filthiness of his wife Iassa, when, having been caught in adultery, and not caught by the testimony of many, because he did not wish to divorce her, he confirmed by the false message of Gabriel. Of the power of whose vice, namely lust, we read that he praised God, because it abounded in him forty times above human measure, congratulating himself, because the sweet smell and beauty of women, God having given, delighted him greatly. Miracles have already been spoken of. But of the wars which he confessed to have entered upon, when the Lord commanded him and promised him victory, his teeth were broken in battle, his face was bruised, and many deaths and the flight of his men testify to the truth; which if the angel of the Lord, as you say, had guarded him, would not have happened to him at all, as we read of Elijah and Elisha (3 Kings 19) , whom God always delivered from their enemies, and whom, even if he were such as he says, victory would always follow, as Moses, Joshua, and David, whom, when they committed battles by divine command, were always accompanied by victory (4 Kings 6; Exod. 17; Joshua 1) . But if he were also a true prophet, as you say, he would know whether he would be about to commit battles whether it would turn out badly for him. How then, having abandoned my law, do you say that I ought to follow his law rather than the Christian law? [602A]

Moses : This is certainly a reason, which whoever has clearly examined it seems true.

Peter : Because you said above that I had read books, knew the language, and would always have been brought up among the Saracens, it does not therefore behoove me to adopt their law.

Moses : Because I believed that she was good, therefore I said that you should receive her.

Peter : You also said that the root of their law was built on the unshaken foundation of reason, from which we may discuss in the field of alternate disputation, word for word, command for command, if we can find it well founded.

Moses : I agree.

Peter : When you say that Mohammed prayed five times a day, [602B] he did so, of course, because he wanted to make his law mediate between Jews and Christians by the advice of his teachers, not by his own probity, nor by the help of God. For the Jews pray three times a day according to the law, but the Christians seven times, but he set the limit between the two by praying neither three nor seven times, but five times. That which you praise them for washing their hands and arms and the other members of the body before they pray, does not pertain to prayer. It does indeed pertain to prayer to be cleansed, internally, not externally. Now cleanliness from the washing of the members belonged to the worshippers of the star of Venus, who, wishing to pray to her, adapted themselves to the manner of a woman. But because he was made king by the point of the star of Venus, therefore he commanded this. You admit that they [602C] were to be proclaimed publicly at the time of prayer, which does not belong to prayer, except because it cannot impose another new sign. He commanded them to fast for a whole month, as you say, in order to restrain the vices of the flesh, which is the beginning of penance. But tell me, I pray you, what is the benefit of fasting during the day, and eating three or four times at night, and enjoying good meats and the best foods, and using women? These do not weaken, but rather strengthen the flesh. That you say that once a year they go to the house of God, which is in Mecca, for the sake of recognition, and pray there, which they say was the case with Adam and Abraham, they do not have on authority, but they invent as if some fiction. For before he preached the law, this house was full of idols. But if you, O Moses, knew what kind of house that was, and what secret was there, and why [602D] Mahomet went there, and commanded him to do what is found in the law, you would be greatly astonished at that.

Moses : I ask you this, what you say, you insinuate. For although I may declare this law to you, I do not know why he commanded that journey and the other things which the law enjoins to be done there.

Peter : I wanted to inform you briefly, but now that I have been asked, I will show you clearly. The sons of Lot, Amon and Moab, honored this house, and two idols were worshipped there by them, one made of white, the other of black stone. The name of the one made of black stone was Mercury, but the name of the other was Chamos. The one made of black stone was built in honor of Saturn, the other made of white stone in honor of Mars. Twice a year their worshippers went up to [603A] it to worship it, to Mars when the sun enters the first degree of Aries, because Aries is the honor of Mars. At whose departure, as was the custom, stones were thrown. But to Saturn, when the sun enters the first degree of Libra, because Libra is the honor of Saturn. That they burned incense naked and with shaved heads is celebrated in India to this day, as I have said. But the Arabs worshipped idols with Amon and Moab. But Mohammed, coming after a long time, could not abolish the former custom, but, as if in some way changing the custom, he allowed them to go around the house covered with seamless coverings. But lest it should seem that he was ordering sacrifices to idols, he built an image of Saturn on the wall, in a corner of the house, so that the face would not be visible, but the back was placed on the outside. He sent another idol of Mars, namely, because it was carved on all sides, under the ground and a stone placed on top, but he commanded the people who gathered there to worship to kiss these stones, and to throw stones back between their legs, with their heads shaved, who, in humiliating themselves, bare their backs, which is a sign of the former law. Tell me, Moses, for what intention did he command this, if not that which I am saying?

Moses : I told you I did not know the intention, because I did not find it written anywhere, but I do know one thing about throwing stones, because they say they do this to drive away demons. I saw written in their books that Bomar, one of the ten companions of Mohammed, began thus by kissing stones in the usual way. He said, I say to you stones, that I know that you can neither help nor harm, but because Mohammed did it, I follow his custom.

Peter : What you said about demons fleeing by throwing stones does not seem to be a consistent argument, because what is not perceived by any bodily sense cannot easily flee. But demons flee by the divine name.

Moses : Since I have heard some saying that they have seen and heard demons, and have conversed with them, I am surprised that you say that you perceive with a non-corporeal sense.

Peter : Although an angel cannot be perceived by the bodily sense, yet to those who walk according to the commandments of God, they become visible. In like manner the devil appears visible to his friends.

Moses : I would indeed like to know by what teaching, [603D] or art I could see or converse with them.

Peter : Why do you desire to know what does not concern you at all?

Moses : Not that I should perform works, but I only desired knowledge.

Peter : How do you want to learn that which increases your error?

Moses : Thank God you have corrected me well, I have learned the meaning in your words.

Peter : Enough has been said, let us return to the beginning. Because Muhammad ordered God’s enemies to be plundered, captured and killed until they were willing to either believe or pay the tax, this is not from the works of God, nor did he command any of the prophets [604A] to force anyone to believe, but he himself ordered this out of greed for money and in order to destroy his enemies. But as you know, this should not be done, indeed if anyone wants to convert anyone, he should do it not by violence, but diligently and gently, as Muhammad himself testifies in his Koran, under the person of the Lord who thus says the same thing: If the Lord your God had willed, the nations of the whole world would have believed. Why then do you force them to believe? because no one believes except by the will of God. And in another place, he says, “The truth of God has already come to you, the Gentiles. He who has believed has done it for himself, but he who has erred has done it for himself, and I am not a burden to you. But follow, O God, what is revealed to you, and wait until God judges, who is the judge over all.” Likewise in the same place, “O Lord , ” he says, “if He willed, your God would put all under one law without discord.” He also pretends in another place as if God were speaking to Himself. “No,” he says, “there should be violence in the law; now truth and justice are evident; let him who wishes believe of his own accord.” Likewise in the Koran, “You unbelievers, I pray not what you pray, nor whom you pray, nor whom you worship, do I worship; for me the law is a law, and for you a law is a law of discord.” And in another place he says: “Do not argue with the nations of another law, except with soft words.” Why then did he command plunder, captivity, and the nations to be forced to believe, and does he confess that all these are the paths of God? Tell me, Moses, the law which is at variance with itself; why then do you command to believe?”

Moses : The book of the Koran is such that even the latter destroys the order of the first. [604C]

Peter : The Koran was not written by the hand of Mahomet, for if he had done so he would have been ordered. But after his death, his companions who had lived with him, each, so to speak, giving up his reading, composed the Koran, from which we do not know who was first and who was later in order. But Mahomet ordered to plunder, to take captive, and to kill nations, because the Arabs who remained in the desert ignorant of God, would delight in plundering, and so that they would believe him most.

Moses : I believe what you say is true.

Peter : What you say to them is absolute, all flesh, except the flesh and blood of swine, and carrion for eating, is also absolute to us [604D] all flesh. In this only, namely, in swine’s flesh we disagree. But this was done by Mahomet, that we Christians might differ in it from his law. What you said about wives that it is lawful to take four and that any one who is divorced may take another, is indeed commanded by no reason, for it is not commanded to take a wife except for the purpose of procreating children (Lev. 18) . But as for the fact that they can have as many purchased and captive women as they wish, this is indeed adultery as far as we are concerned, because often a father buys a woman who has been raped from his son, and against a son or brother who has been corrupted by his father.

Moses : In your words truth is believed. But as there was such a disagreement among these precepts, why did Mahomet, who seems so wise, command it to be done?

Peter : Mahomet loved women very much, and [605A] was very lustful, and as he himself professed, the power of lust of forty men remained in him. And especially because the Arabs were very lustful, he satisfied their will to believe. As for having wives from one’s own kindred, it was the custom of all at that time, so that a bond of friendship might flourish between them. As for the judgments from which you have spoken above, in some they certainly agree with the law of Moses, but in some they disagree, because Mahomet made his law somewhat different from the law of Moses. Therefore they are always commanded to abstain from wine, lest perhaps their drunken companions should reveal the ruin of the people. What you preached about paradise must be disregarded, because they cannot be proved by reason. For the soul being separated from the body and the four elements separated from each other, man will not use these worldly things in the way [605B] that we condemned above in the third title, where we spoke of the resurrection of the dead. The wise man does not believe in such a paradise, nor is he deceived by such words. But the men of the time of Mohammed, without law, without scripture, ignorant of all good, except for the army and the plough, desiring luxury, and given to gluttony, could easily have been preached according to their own will. For if he had done otherwise, he would not have driven them to his law.

Moses : For without the help of God such a great nation would not have believed in him.

Peter : If he had done everything with the help of God, he would not have been defeated many times, nor, as we said above, would his teeth have been broken in war, who, like other kings , was defeated, and sometimes conquered. But after his death, all wished to depart from his law. For he himself had said that his body should be carried to heaven on the third day. But when they recognized him as a liar, and saw his corpse stinking, the greater part departed after his body was buried. But another son of Abithari, one of the ten companions of Mahomet, obtained the kingdom after his death. He preached gently, and cunningly admonished the Gentiles to believe, and said that they did not well understand Mahomet’s speech. Mahomet, he says, did not say that he would be raised to heaven before burial, even in the sight of men. He did indeed say that after the burial of the body, the angels would carry him to heaven without anyone knowing it, whence, because they did not bury him immediately , therefore it began to stink that he should be buried immediately. For this reason, then, the nation was detained for a while in its former error. Two brothers, writers of Muhammad, named Hazan and Hozain, who were strenuously torturing their bodies with fasts and vigils, almost died. Their father often warned his sons not to tire their bodies with such long torturing. But he himself, seeing that they were foolish and had already come to the door of death from excessive labor, revealed the truth about Muhammad. But when they learned of his wickedness from their father, they began to eat and drink wine, and as they had previously persisted strongly in their law, so they finally began to abandon the law, although not entirely. But a certain part of the nation [606A] followed them in custom. Therefore, O Moses, we can acknowledge in all ways that he is neither a true prophet nor that his words are false. Although we may omit many things that we can say about him, yet let us introduce one thing that we and you believe, namely, that Christ, whom we equally believe to have died and been crucified, he denies. For he himself says: They neither killed nor crucified Christ, but it seemed to them. But not only in this will you find him a liar, but reread all the books and the sayings of the prophets, and in all that he said about them you will find him a liar. How then do you urge me to believe him a liar, when you find him a deceiver in everything? I beseech the mercy of Almighty God, that he may free me from his error and perfect the law which I have begun [606B] . Amen.

Title VI.

On the Trinity.

Moses : Enough has been argued against our sect and the sect of the Saracens. For you have refuted both, both from reason and from authority. But now explain what your faith is, and distinguish the extent of your credulity under the chapters.

Peter : In the beginning of my book, I have already told you the extent of my credulity under the titles. But now seek under any title in the same dispute, and let it be lawful for you, if you can, to destroy what has been said by me.

Moses : This I desire, if I may. Now therefore I will begin to inquire into the first part of your credulity, namely, how God is one, and three persons, so that none of these is naturally prior to another in time, nor is one substantially separated from the other, namely , whom the Christians call the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Then we will discuss the other parts of your credulity, until we have finished all. Explain therefore what these three persons are, and this first reasonably.

Peter : I want to say three persons, substance, wisdom, and will. But I call the first person substance because in it and from it are wisdom and will, and it is from nothing, although all three persons are one substance.

Moses : Can these three be found by reason?

Peter : They can. For in the first part of my book we have indeed treated of substance sufficiently and firmly, because it is [606D] , and we need not inquire further about it. But whether wisdom and will are in substance itself, remains to be explained.

Moses : I ask this.

Peter : Since, therefore, it is true that there is a substance, and that it is the creator of all things, and the beginning of things initiated, and the maker of things made, it is necessary that it should have wisdom and will, namely, that it should know what it wishes to do, before it wishes to do because it does, and that even before the work comes forth in demonstration, it is first formed in the mind by imagining, and this imagination is wisdom. But when it thus knows, it either does or does not do. But it does not do if it does not will. But if it does, it also wills, and this is will. [607A] Therefore it appears in our discourse that work precedes wisdom and will. Therefore, the Creator of the world could not create anything before wisdom and will were in it.

Moses : It is true.

Peter : Therefore God is substance, wisdom, and will.

Moses : It is true. But you still have to prove that this wisdom and will are eternally in God, and are inseparable from Him, and are not prior to them in time, as you believe.

Peter : I will verify. For since it is certain that God has wisdom and will, we ought to know whether this wisdom and will exist in him and are not separated from him, or outside him, or whether they are sometimes with him and sometimes not. [607B]

Moses : It is true that they are in Him, and are not separated from Him, because if it were not so, then God would be unwise, after He was wise, and would be without will, after He had will, because it is impossible that after they are in Him they should be separated from Him, except by accident, and accident is not found in Him.

Peter : God bless you, because you have well understood the truth and have conceded, and have shown that you have good faith. But you must still inquire whether this wisdom and will are eternal, or whether they had a beginning.

Moses : Let us suppose now that they had a beginning.

Peter : Then your words are contradictory. [607C] For you said that God cannot be unwise, after He was wise, nor without will, after He had will. Then, because you have posited that the same things had a beginning, then sometimes they are in Him, sometimes not.

Moses : This is not at all contrary to my assertion. For I said above that God cannot be without wisdom and will, once he has them. But because I granted that he has the same principle, I in no way contradicted that he could have what he did not have.

Peter : Indeed, if they had a beginning, either God created them, or they themselves.

Moses : Without a doubt, God created them, because no thing creates itself.

Peter : Therefore, if God created them, when they had a beginning [607D] , the Creator himself needed another wisdom and will with which to create them, and, as has been said, it is necessary for the operator to have wisdom and will before he operates anything, and so on ad infinitum. Therefore it is necessary that wisdom and will be eternally in God, and inseparable from him, nor be prior to them in time. And this is what we wish to explain.

Moses : It is true, for it is right and profitable for us to assent to the truth.

Peter : But it remains to be said which of these, namely wisdom and will, is called the Son, and which the Holy Spirit.

Moses : Since then none of them is prior to the other in time, nor is any substance prior to them, can any of these three be prior in any order of expression?

Peter : Indeed it can, and it is in the order of names, not nature. For in substance are wisdom and will, and therefore it is first. But wisdom is therefore prior to will, because, before the creator wills anything, he must know what he wills. Therefore, in this order of names, substance is prior to wisdom and will, and wisdom is prior to will. In a similar way also in these names, namely, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But for this reason we have dealt with you about this kind of thing so grossly, that you, who do not perceive more subtle things, may at least in this way be able to perceive something from it. But if, speaking with some Christian from there, [608B] we could argue with him much more subtly from there.

Moses : Since then you have shown by reason that God has wisdom and will, can it be found in any authentic book that the Creator himself used wisdom and will in the creation of the world?

Peter : Yes. For Solomon says of wisdom in Proverbs: The Lord founded the earth by wisdom, He established the heavens by understanding (Prov. 3) . But David says of will in the Psalm: He did all that he pleased (Ps. 103) .

Moses : And why do you call the second person of your Trinity by this name, which is wisdom, when it is called the Word by others?

Peter : In this there is certainly no contrariety. For the truth of God is his perfect wisdom: which the Psalmist also shows when he says: By the word of the Lord the heavens were established (Ps. XXXII) . It is clear , therefore, that the wisdom of God and his word are the same.

Moses : Up to this point you have treated the explanation of the Trinity quite philosophically, but I would like to see at least one authority from the Scriptures approve that there are several persons in God.

Peter : I will not prove it with one, but with many, not with hidden, but with open understanding.

Moses : Open it, then.

Peter : What is a clearer thing, and more powerful for proving this, than the explanation of the names of God, as Elohim and Adonai ? For Elohim shows the plurality of [608D] , of which the singular is Eloha . But when I say Elohai, it is as if I were saying my God, the plurality of gods, and only one person speaking, but when I say Elohim, it is as if I were saying our God, signifying the plurality of both, both of the gods and of their speakers. Which even if Elohi is said, it is as if it were said, my God. But this is found in no Hebrew scripture, that any man ever called God Elohi, although, according to the rules of the Hebrew language itself, it can be said.

Moses : For in your Gospel we find that Christ on the cross called God (Mark 15; Matthew 27) .

Peter : I know of no contrary to this. For Christ invoked God the Father in one [609A] name, namely, only of three persons, and in another only one. In a similar way in the name which is Adon, that is, Lord. For when we say Adon, it demonstrates singularity, while Adonai, as if I were to say my Lords, signifying a plurality of lords, and saying unity: but when I say Adonemi, as if I were to say our Lords, and several Lords, and several by signifying saying: when I say Adoni, as if I were to say my Lord, and one Lord, and saying by noting one. By this true name man is only found from man, but God is never so called. Since therefore in the sacred Scriptures God is found called Eloha, and Adon, which is interpreted singularly God or Lord, therefore he is one. And elsewhere when he is again found called Elohim, and Adonai, which signifies plurality, many gods are shown. Which [609B] seems contrary. For either there will be one God, or many. But in God there is no such contrary. For what He called Himself by a singular name certainly refers to one substance, but what He called Himself by a plural name refers to many persons. For there is one God in many persons.

Moses : That these names of God, namely Elohim and Adonai, signify plurality, occurs according to the rules of literary art. But that God called himself thus, he did not, being constrained by any rules, but according to his own pleasure, and indeed his pleasure should not be subject to any rules.

Peter : It is true that those names should not be supplanted by any rules, but this, if they are proper, is not [609C] appellative. But these are appellatives, and therefore they should rightly be supplanted by rules, as we have explained above. Therefore, where they are pronounced singularly, they signify singularity, but where they are plural, they signify plurality, as we find in Genesis, that Lot called the angels Adonai (Gen. XIX) , that is, my Lords, because there were certainly two angels. And elsewhere in the same book, Laban, rebuking Jacob, says: Why have you stolen Elohai (Gen. XXXI) , that is, my gods? And in the Psalms it is found written: I said Elohim (Ps. LXXXI) , that is, you are gods. And the Lord speaking to the Israelitish people through Moses, says: You shall have no Elohim Mermi (Exod. XX) , that is, strange gods. The books of the prophets will also abound with similar testimonies. [609D]

Moses : Although it has been shown that Elohim and Adonai signify plurality, yet when they are said of God, they signify singularity, which is noted by the act to which they are adjoined, being said with a singular voice. For it says of God, He made, He said (Gen. 1) , or something else of the kind, and it is not said, They made, or They said.

Peter : This is my authority, that the name of God is said in the plural, and the act in the singular, and by this it is clear that God is one in many persons. And yet, in order to cut across all your objections, I can indeed demonstrate that both the name of God and the act itself are pronounced in the plural. Which although it may be so, since it has already been shown above by many reasons that there is only one [610A] God, we cannot refer it to many gods. Therefore it must be referred to one God and many persons.

Moses : If you show this, then what you have proposed will be perfectly proven.

Peter : But if, with God’s help, I show you this, will you believe that there is one and many persons?

Moses : I will certainly not make any agreement with you on this matter, but I would only like to listen attentively.

Peter : I know indeed the hardness of your heart, but yet I will now show it to you, for by this you may perhaps remember some good. In the book of Samuel it is written, that when the Philistines saw the ark of the Lord coming against them, they said. Elehem Elohim (2 Kings 4) , that is, these are the gods who struck [610B] Egypt with every plague in the wilderness . For here both the name of God and the act are pronounced in the plural.

Moses : I certainly do not grant that you have proved yourself by what you have proposed. For this nation said, believing not in one, but in many gods, and thought that there were many gods of Israel, just as there were their own.

Peter : Since you do not grant this, I will now show you a similar passage in the books of the prophets. For it is written in Genesis: The Lord said to Jacob: Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there, and make an altar to God, who appeared to you when you fled from your brother (Gen. XXXV) . Here, indeed, both the name of God and the act are pronounced singularly. Then it is written in the same book that Jacob fulfilled the commandment of the Lord [610C] . For it follows: And he built an altar there, and called the name of the place the house of God . For there God appeared to him when he fled from his brother. But here, both God and appeared are pronounced plurally in Hebrew. For there is Elohim and Niglu, which signifies appeared in the plural. For if he had wished to say appeared singularly, he would have put Nigla. Likewise also in the book of Samuel, David, praising God, says: But what is like your people Israel, a nation in the land, for whose sake God went to redeem it for himself as a people? (2 Kings VII.) Here also, similarly, both God and went are plural in Hebrew. For here, similarly, we have Elohim and Halcu, which is went, the singular of which is Halac. But he redeemed, and to himself, singular. Likewise, in Jeremiah we read: But the Lord [610D] is the true God, the living God, and the everlasting King (Jer. X.) . Here again, both God and living are said in Hebrew in the plural. Since, therefore, in the Scriptures the name and act of God are sometimes pronounced singularly, sometimes also plurally, both are clear, because both God is one and many persons.

Moses : Since it has been shown from the names of God that God is one in many persons, it remains to be asked why there are only three persons, as you believe, and not two, or four, or more.

Peter : We have already shown that above, namely that there are three persons, when we were discussing this by reason, but if you disagree, since you have already conceded that there are more persons among the names of God, then tell me [611A] how many persons you are willing to believe in number, and I will weaken your arguments if I can.

Moses : I certainly believe neither two nor three, nor any number of persons, but I sought this to contradict your arguments.

Peter : The Trinity is indeed a subtle and ineffable thing, and difficult to explain, of which the prophets spoke only secretly and under a veil, until Christ came, who, of three persons in one, revealed it to the minds of the faithful according to their capacity. However, if you pay more attention, and that name of God, which is found explained in the secrets of secrets, examine it, יהוה , a name of three letters, although four figures, for one of them [611B] doubled is written twice, if you examine it, you will see that the same name is both one and three. But that which is one, regards the unity of substance, but that which is three, regards the Trinity of persons. Now that name consists of these four figures, י and ה and ו and ה : ​​of which if you join only the first and the second, namely י and ה , it will indeed be one name. Likewise if you join the second and the third, namely ה and ו , you will already have another. Similarly, if you join only the third and the fourth, namely ו and ה , you will also find the third. Again, if you connect them all together in order, there will be only one name, as is clear in this geometric figure. [611C]

Consider therefore, O Moses, how secret and subtle this name is, and how it can only be recognized by the insight of a perceptive mind and by profound investigation, as Moses testifies, who says in Deuteronomy [611D] : Know this day and consider in your heart that the Lord himself is God, in heaven above and on earth beneath, and there is no other (Deut. 4) . For where Dominus is used in Latin , you will indeed find the aforementioned name in Hebrew, but where God is used in Latin, in Hebrew it is written Elohim , which signifies plurality. But in order to make it clear that it is the same God who is called by both the singular proper and the plural appellative word, but also so that they might not think that there were many gods, he added, and there is no other . But what Moses said, “Know and think in your heart” (Exod. 20) , truly suggests that the secret subtlety of this name cannot be comprehended by sight, hearing, or any bodily senses [612A] , except only by the clear understanding of the mind and by a wonderful faculty. The Trinity can also be denoted in many other things, as in the fringes which the Lord commanded the children of Israel to have on their garments through Moses, saying: Speak to the children of Israel, and tell them to make for themselves fringes in the corners of their garments, putting on them blue ribbons, which they may see, and remember all the commandments of the Lord (Num. 19) . For those fringes were of four threads, but doubled, having three knots in their upper part, and two in their lower part. But by the four threads, the four times of the year are designated, but by the doubling of the threads, the days and nights, namely, that during the four times of the year, the same throughout the whole year, night and day, they might be mindful of God’s commandments. [612B] For by the three upper knots, the Trinity of persons, and by the two lower knots, the two Testaments are insinuated, namely the law of Moses and the Gospel. The Trinity is also noted in the three blessings with which Aaron and his sons blessed the children of Israel according to the commandment of the Lord, who said to Moses: Speak to Aaron and his sons: Thus shall you bless the children of Israel, and say to them: The Lord bless you, and keep you, the Lord make his face shine upon you, and be gracious to you, the Lord turn his countenance towards you, and give you peace (Num. 6) . For with these blessings the priest, blessing someone, held both palms outstretched before his face. But when the Lord said, whom he expressed in Hebrew by that three and one name which we have mentioned above, the three first fingers, [612C]He raised the thumb, forefinger, and middle finger of both hands, straightened higher, and having thus spoken to the Lord, he lowered the fingers as before. But tell me, O Moses, what can be better allegorized by the elevation of three fingers than the excellence of the Trinity? But if you know and are able to point out anything else beyond these, please explain it to me.

Moses : Indeed, we have never noted either what you said or anything else about this. But neither have our teachers said that anything should be noted.

Peter : What else but a trinity of persons can be noted in what the prophet Isaiah says, namely, the threefold voice of angels praising God and saying: Holy, holy, holy, the Lord God of hosts? (Isa. 6.) For why do they say holy only three times rather than once, or twice, or ten, or a hundred times, or any other number? Why, if they wished to praise briefly, would they not say holy once? But if they wished to praise much, why not give a hundred or a thousand, or an innumerable praise?

Moses : We indeed know of no cause for that threefold voice in the praise of the angels, except their own pleasure.

Peter : If you answer each of the things I propose that you do not know, what else do you admit than that you are defeated and do not know how to resist? David also testifies to the Trinity of Persons when he says: Seek the Lord [and be strengthened, etc.] and his power, and seek his work always (Ps. 104) . For what is that which he said: Seek the Lord and his power, and seek his face , if not seek the Father, and the Son, and the Spirit? For who is understood by the power of the Lord except his Son, and who by the face except the Holy Spirit? But if you understand otherwise, explain. These, therefore, the testimonies of the holy Scriptures concerning the Trinity of Persons will be sufficient for those who are sufficiently intelligent. For if I were to introduce all the testimonies that I could on these, a large book would not contain them. So much for these. But if you have anything else to ask, do not delay.

Title VII.

How the Virgin Mary, conceiving of the Holy Spirit, She gave birth without the interference of a man.

Moses : I would have you already explained about Mary, how you believe she gave birth without the union of a man (Luke 1; Matthew 1) , and I will relate it if I can.

Peter : We truly believe that the Holy Spirit coming upon her, the power of the Most High overshadowing her, united her members, as it pleased God, into one force, and thus conceived her without the union of man.

Moses : It is indeed a wonderful thing and difficult to understand, how a son could be born from a mother without a carnal father. For we see in this customary generation of men, that unless two natures agree, a man cannot be born. [613C]

Peter : Why does this generation seem strange and ineffable to you, when you have already heard a similar one, which we and you believe, namely, that Eve was begotten without a mother from her father, that is, from the flesh of Adam? (Gen. II.)

Moses : That generation, like this one, could indeed have been brought about by a miracle, but we have authority about it, namely Moses (Gen. 2) , whom no legitimate person contradicts. But I think you will find no authority about that one, but if you have heard any from the books of the prophets, bring it up.

Peter : I will not cite one authority on this matter, but many, since the prophets have spoken in many places about the future birth of Christ. [613D]

Moses : If you do what you say, you will undoubtedly protect your faith.

Peter : First of all, then, remember what was said by Isaiah to Ahaz, king of Judah: for when his enemies, namely the king of Armenia and the king of Israel, came upon him, thus spoke Isaiah to him: Fear not , he says, O Ahaz, for Jerusalem shall not be destroyed, and doubt not. Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God, even to the depth of hell, or to the height above ; and Ahaz said: I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord (Isa. 7) . But when Isaiah had known that Ahaz had not spoken in good faith, but rather because he did not fear or love God, he answered: Hear , he says, therefore , house of David: is it a small thing for you to be troublesome to men, that you are troublesome also to my God? For this cause the Lord himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel (Luke 1; Matt. 1) . And this prophecy was spoken by some for the sake of Christ, and repeated to the blessed Mary by the angel.

Moses : And how can this stand, that these things which Isaiah announced to Ahaz were said for the sake of Christ, as if they were spoken of by the apostles and Mary, when, as you yourself know, many hundreds of years passed from Ahaz to Mary?

Peter : If you do not believe that they were spoken for the sake of Christ and Mary, for whose sake do you think they were uttered?

Moses : Certainly because of the wife of Ahaz, and [614B] his son Hezekiah who was born of her.

Peter : What you say is false, and you build this up through inexperience, or because you show neither reverence nor honor to God, but you presume to lie and think badly of him. For at the time that these things were said to Ahaz, he himself was already king, and his son Hezekiah was already nine years old. For on the first day of his reign Ahaz himself was twenty years old, and he reigned sixteen years. And Hezekiah his son, who next succeeded him in the kingdom, was twenty-five years old when he began to reign. So Hezekiah was nine years old when his father became king. Therefore this prophecy of which we are speaking was spoken neither because of Ahaz’s wife, nor because of his son Hezekiah .

Moses : I therefore want you to show me and explain how this prophecy was spoken for the sake of Mary and her son.

Peter : I will certainly find many things in the words of the prophecy itself, by which I will very easily convince myself that it was not uttered for the sake of Ahaz or his son, but for the sake of Mary and her son Christ. For although the prophet spoke to Ahaz, yet not only to him, or about his time, the prophecy was spoken. For this reason it was said (Isa. 7:11) : Hear, O house of David , not, Hear, thou, Ahaz. Likewise, when the prophet says: The Lord himself shall give you a sign , because he added, himself , as if he said not another, from this it can be understood that the Lord himself [614D] will be the sign. That he also says in the plural, you, and not you, is implied not for the sake of Ahaz, or to him alone, that this was said. But also that which follows: Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel , clearly insinuates that the prophet did not speak of the wife of Ahaz, or of his son. For he would not have called a married woman a virgin, nor would it be any miracle or sign that a woman having a husband should conceive, or perhaps bear a son. Moreover, in what is read there, he will call , two things are to be noted, namely, that God also wanted the Son to be so called, and that without a carnal father a virgin would bear a child. For on this account he says, he will call , as if he were saying, yet she herself will call [615A] bit. and not father. We also know that neither the son of Ahaz nor any other man of that time was called by this name which is Emmanuel.

Moses : I am indeed astonished at you, a man so expert in our language, that you thus confuse words and pervert the Scriptures. For, as you yourself know, the prophet did not use a name in Hebrew that would render virgin in Latin. Which if he had wanted to do, he would certainly have used bethula. But he used halma, which only signifies a girl.

Peter : You contradict, O Moses, unjustly, and do not seem to recognize the use of the Hebrew language or its nature. For a woman, whether young or old; but as long as she is young, she is a virgin, but if she is corrupted, she can be called a virgin. But Halma [615B] is called null, unless she is both young and intact. But what the prophet added about the boy, saying: He shall eat butter and honey, that he may know to reject evil and choose good , tell me, I beg you, O Moses, what did he mean by that honey and butter? Did he mean to hint at some allegory there, or did he simply bring out honey and butter?

Moses : For we do not understand that at all, unless we understand it simply, namely, because he will be wise, and will have the discernment of good and evil, therefore, he says, he will eat honey and butter , which is sweet and good.

Peter : Surely he is not to be considered wise because he eats honey and butter. For although there are both [615C] sweets, since they are not wholesome, they are not good, and he who eats that which is neither wholesome nor good, how can he be wise? But if you understand that word in another way, as is possible, namely, that he eats honey and butter, for the purpose of knowing how to reject evil and choose good, that is, so that by eating honey and butter he may have knowledge of good and evil, that is, he may be wise, if I say you understand it thus, you do not seem wise to me, for where is it hinted in the natures of things that eating butter or honey confers wisdom? Surely nowhere. It remains, therefore, that we understand it allegorically.

Moses : And what allegory can you understand there?

Peter : For by these two words both the law [615D] can be understood, the gospel and the law of Moses. Indeed in many places we find in the prophets the words of the Lord compared to honey and milk (Ps. 18:118; Ezek. 3) .

Moses : What then is the meaning of what follows, ” Before the child shall know to reject evil and choose good, the land which thou abhorrest shall be forsaken by the face of her two kings” (Isa. 7:11) . What, I say, did the prophet mean by such words? For these words indicate that the child of whom the prophecy is made was born at that time.

Peter : Do you, I pray you, O Moses, wish to take the words of the prophets in the usual order of human speech? This cannot be. For their words are like dreams [616A] , and just as the words of men suffering from a fever, or delirious with some other disease, are not connected in any order, so also the words of the prophets are not uttered in any continuity, nor do they refer to what they say before or after, except as the Holy Spirit reveals to them. Wherefore these words are to be connected in this way: He shall eat butter and honey, that he may know to reject evil, and to choose good , because it is heard before he eats, he shall know to reject evil and to choose good. For this is the Hebrew truth, and here at last that prophecy which was spoken to the house of David because of the unbelief of Ahaz is ended. For what immediately follows, the land shall be abandoned , and the rest is said for another reason, as we also find elsewhere. For it is read in Exodus: Moses said to the Lord: [616B] Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh, and bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? And he said to him: I will be with you, and this shall be the sign to you that I have sent you. When you have brought my people out of Egypt, you shall sacrifice to God on this mountain. When you have brought my people out (Exod. 3) , etc.; it seems to be a sign of him that he said that I have sent you , but it is not. For when the people were brought out of Egypt and Moses sacrificed on that mountain, they all knew that Moses was a prophet and that he had been sent by the Lord. Therefore, Moses began there to say something different from what he had said before, in the manner of a prophet. But if you contradict him, and ask what that sign was, know that the sign is that which he says: I will be with you (Isa. 8) .

Moses : If this is so, what is meant by what is read in the following verses , [616C] that before the child knows how to call his father and his mother, the strength of Damascus and the spoils of Samaria will be taken away before the king of the Assyrians? For were not all these things said about the same child, namely, the one who was born before the destruction?

Peter : We do not understand that all these things were said of Christ. These things could therefore have been said not of him, but of that child who was born at that time, of whom the Lord said to the prophet: Call his name , make haste to take away the spoils, make haste to the plunder (Isa. 8) , or of some other person.

Moses : Surely that child who is called Emmanuel, I will show you, because he was born at that time. For when the prophet was speaking of the coming of the king of Assyria upon the land of Judah, he said of him: And the extension of his wings shall be , filling the breadth of thy land, O Emmanuel (Isa. VIII) . For here he shows that at the time of his coming he was already Emmanuel.

Peter : You do not, of course, convince us by this that Emmanuel was born at that time. For this was not his name according to his body, but according to his divinity, according to which it is clear that he was Emmanuel both at that time and before and after.

Moses : Now from these words of yours I understand something which you did not say before, for you seem to hint that the child of whom you speak would be God and man.

Peter : Thus I believe without a doubt, which I have noted in the explanation of my faith and will show you, if you ever ask for it. [617A]

Moses : I do not inquire about this at this time, but rather I want you to answer first, if you still have any authority from the prophet, that that child, the son of Mary, was born of a mother without a carnal father.

Peter : I have certainly. For he says: Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the clouds rain down the just; let the earth be opened, and bring forth the Saviour, and let righteousness spring up together; and: I the Lord have created him (Isa. XLV) . For by this which he says: Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the clouds rain down the just , he has marked that the Holy Spirit would descend from heaven; but by this which follows: Let the earth be opened, and bring forth the Saviour , we understand the body of the Virgin, who, by the coming of the Holy Spirit, was to conceive and bring forth the Saviour. But also by this which is: I the Lord have created him , it is insinuated [617B] that without the help of a carnal father, the Lord begot him (Ps. 109). Whence also against those who do not believe this he brought in the following: Woe to him that contradicteth his maker, the potter of the clay of the earth; and shall the clay say to his potter: What makest thou, and thy work is without hands? and: Woe to him that saith unto his father: What begettesteth; and to the mother: What travailest thou? (Isa. XLV.) For thus he attacks those who doubt this, and inquire how God begot him, and call Mary blessed, because she bore him without the intercourse of man. Again, speaking against the unbelieving, the prophet says: Shall I, who cause others to bear, not myself bring forth, saith the Lord? If I, who give birth to others, shall I be barren, saith the Lord thy God? (Isa. LXVI.) For thus it is shown that God begot him without a carnal father . [617C] I believe that these things are sufficient for those who understand, that that child was born of a mother without a carnal father.

Title VIII.

Just as the Word of God was incarnate in the body of Christ, and Christ was man, and at the same time God.

Moses : You have dealt with the generation of a child sufficiently by authority, and reason sufficiently admits that it could have been done in this way, but it is more wonderful than all how a divinity, which is simple, could have been adjoined and united to a human body, which is composite. I beg you therefore, as you promised, to explain by what reason this could have been done.

Peter : Certainly there was no necessary reason why it should have been done, which was done by the will and goodness of God alone (Tit. iii) . For if He had not willed it, He would not have united Himself with human nature [617D] . However, it is stated that it should have been done without any reason. For just as the soul, which is simple, is joined to a composite body, and the two become one man, and this without reason contradicting it, so also without reason could God unite Himself to man.

Moses : I would also like to hear something else from you, if you please. For since you say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are one, and believe that they are one, I would like you to tell me in what way you believe that the Son alone was incarnate, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit.

Peter : To you, I think, it is certainly strange and impossible that we do not believe it to be strange. For although this cannot be shown in the Godhead, because it is indeed subtle and [618A] spiritual, yet in corporeal things we can find a similar thing, by which you can also recognize that, as in fire, which is a substance, there is always brightness with heat. For you will not find the substance of fire without brightness and heat, nor the substance of fire together with brightness. But sometimes heat comes to us without brightness, sometimes also brightness without heat.

Moses : It is certainly true that sometimes brightness comes to us without heat. For we can perceive this from a candle, whose brightness we see and do not feel the heat. But I do not see how heat can come to us without brightness.

Peter : I can show this very easily. For if you take some metal and heat it so that you can heat another body from it, if you apply yourself to it, you will indeed feel the heat, but you will not see the brightness .

Moses : Now from your words you seem to believe that just as sometimes brightness comes without heat, and heat without brightness, and yet they are not separated from fire, so also the Son took on flesh without the Father and the Holy Spirit, and yet did not for this reason depart from them.

Peter : Certainly I believe so, and you have deceived me well, if you believed. For the Truth itself said: I am in the Father, and the Father is in me (John 14) ; and again: I and the Father are one (John 10:17) .

Moses : I quite concede that the Deity could unite Himself to man; but since it was not necessary for it to be so , why should we believe that it was done?

Peter : We, indeed, who do not believe that the prophets lied, since they themselves predicted that Christ would be God and man, must believe that they truly said this also.

Moses : I would like you to show me in what place the prophets say this about him. For I certainly desire to hear it from you above all things.

Peter : We read in Genesis that the Lord said: Let us make man in our image and likeness , and elsewhere: God created man in his image and likeness (Gen. I) . Tell me now, I pray you, what is this image or likeness of God? For in what way are the image of God and the image of man alike? [618D]

Moses : It is certainly good to acknowledge the truth, and I truly say that they are in no way similar. For it has been shown above both by reason and by authority, and we have granted that God has the likeness of nothing.

Peter : Therefore the Scripture is lying which says, ” God created man in his own image and likeness .”

Moses : No way.

Peter : Which of those two prophets should we believe, the one who said that God has no likeness to anything, or the one who said: Did God create man? etc. Which of them spoke truthfully? [619A]

Moses : Neither of them can be said to have lied.

Peter : And how can two contrary things exist in the same thing, namely, God both having an image and not having one?

Moses : I certainly want you to explain to me how you yourself understand these things.

Peter : And this is certainly true, namely, that God, as we have said before, has the likeness of no thing, and we know that Moses truly said, that God created men in his own image and likeness . For he himself was truthful in all things. But by the image of God of which Moses spoke, we must understand that image, that is, the human form, which the incarnate Son of God [619B] assumed .

Moses : And how can this stand, when at the time when Adam was made he had not yet assumed that image which you believe God assumed?

Peter : And if that image was not yet in the work, yet it was already in his providence and will. But since his will does not change, as far as he is concerned, there is nothing to prevent his image from always being believed to have been. And indeed we find this elsewhere in the prophets (Num. 2:3; Mal. 3) that they spoke of a future thing as if it were past, as Isaiah says in the person of the Lord: The day of vengeance is in my heart, the year of my recompense is come (Isa. 64) . The day certainly or [619C] year had not come, which however, because it was already in his heart, he said had already come.

Moses : Do you have any other authority by which you can show more clearly that that child must have been God and man?

Peter : I certainly have many. For Isaiah says of Him: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace (Isa. 9) . For all these names belong only to the Deity.

Moses : You misunderstand Scripture. For it is not to be read in this way that that child is called Wonderful or Counselor, etc., but rather thus: He who is wonderful , who is counselor, who is the mighty God, who is the father of the world to come; he, I say, will call him Prince of Peace. But if not, of whom then is it said will he call him ?

Peter : This certainly does not cause me any inconvenience, because God called himself thus. And the Hebrew language well allows this, as is found in the book of Numbers: This is the law of consecration: When the days which he had vowed shall be fulfilled, he shall bring him to the door of the tabernacle of the covenant (Num. 6) . For of the same it is said, and he shall bring, and him . But also that which the prophet says in the same place: Of the increase of his government shall be multiplied, and peace there shall be no end: he shall sit upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, and to establish it , [620A] and to uphold it with judgment and justice, from henceforth even for ever (Isa. 9) ; this, I say, shows all that that child should have been God and man. For whatsoever is of man shall have an end, but God and that which is of his abideth for ever (Ps. 16) . Besides all these things also you unjustly contradict me concerning the above-mentioned names, for your teachers said that Christ would have seven names, and they put these same. But you would not have confirmed this agreement at the beginning of the discussion, so that you would unjustly contradict something.

Moses : I remember, and it is true, that our teachers said so.

Peter : I will give you another authority, if you wish, that the child will be God and man. For the same prophet says [620B] of him: There shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse, and a flower shall grow up out of his roots, and the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and piety, and he shall fill him with the Spirit of the fear of the Lord. He shall not judge by the sight of his eyes, nor reprove by the hearing of his ears, but he shall judge the poor in righteousness, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth, and he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked (Isa. 11) . For what he says, he shall not judge by the sight of his eyes , and the rest that follows, undoubtedly belong to no one but God alone. For man cannot judge anything justly unless he sees or hears. [620C]

Moses : Part of this authority, which you have brought to your aid, is an obstacle to the demonstration of what you are trying to prove. For it is read there: And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and piety, and he shall fill him with the Spirit of the fear of the Lord . For if God were to be, he would certainly give these things and not take them away.

Peter : There is nothing that you object to. For I told you first of all in my explanation of credulity that Christ himself is three substances, namely body, soul, and God. And according to the Deity those seven names were attributed to him, but according to the soul he could receive the seven functions mentioned above. [620D] For this soul, besides being adjoined to the Deity, was also in itself the most worthy of all souls.

Moses : Since, therefore, according to His Deity He has received seven names, and according to His soul He has received seven gifts, I would certainly like you to explain to me what you attribute to Him according to His body.

Peter : Although you may utter this ridiculously, yet, if you wish, I will say what I attribute to it according to the flesh. For the same Isaiah says: I will put in the wilderness the cedar, and the cypress, and the myrtle, and the olive tree, and I will set in the desert the fir, the pine, and the box together (Isa. XLI) . By these seven trees, indeed, the body of Christ is designated. For why should he speak of any desert, since [621A] such trees always dwell in the desert? By the desert, therefore, is understood the world, which, at the time of Christ’s coming, was empty of all good and deserted.

Moses : Since then he represented his body by trees, why, I ask, did he not include fruit-bearing and more precious trees in his representation?

Peter : He did this with great insight and reason. For just as those trees always flourish, and never lose their foliage, so also the body of Christ is always alive, always whole and intact. But I have another argument of authority to prove that man and God could be united. For Isaiah says: And they will say in that day: Behold, this is our Lord. We have waited for him, and he will save us (Isa. 25) . We certainly do not care to explain this verse differently [621B] than your teachers have explained it some time ago. For through him they taught that the time would come when the world would see God, and the people would point to each other with their finger. But this could not be done at all unless someone and God were made flesh. This is also what the prophet says: The voice of your watchmen; they have lifted up their voice, they will praise together, because they will see eye to eye when the Lord converts Zion (Isa. 45) . This verse, I say, your teachers have explained in the same way as we have said, because of that: Eye to eye they shall see . But the prophet also put another thing, by which the above-mentioned things can be no less verified. For he says: And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see together that the mouth of the Lord hath spoken (Isa. 40) . For the voice of the breath of a thing can be heard, as the children of Israel heard the voice of the Lord on Mount Sinai (Exod. 20) . But you will not see him speaking, unless it be a carnal thing. Likewise another thing which Zechariah says: In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and he that offends in that day shall be as David, and the house of David as God, and the angel of God in their sight (Zech. 12) . For by this which he says, and the house of David as God , he certainly wished to understand that one would be born of the house of David, who would be considered God by all. That he also says, as if of God , and does not simply say God, insinuates that he who was to arise from the house of David was in some way less than God (John 14) . Which David also testifies in the Psalm when he says: You have made him a little less than God [than the angels] (Ps. 8) . Likewise Micah says: And you, Bethlehem [621D] Ephrathah, are little among the thousands of Judah. ​​Out of you shall come forth to me one who is to be ruler in Israel, and his goings forth have been from the beginning, from the days of eternity (Mic. 5) . This, indeed, out of you shall come forth to me one who is to be ruler in Israel , is said according to the body, according to the way that prince was to come in time. But what follows, and his goings forth from the beginning, from the days of eternity , insinuates the perpetuity of the Deity. For he attributes this to the Deity which, I think, does not befit man. Likewise David in the Psalm when he says:Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; the scepter of guidance is the scepter of thy kingdom; and thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity, therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy companions (Ps. XLIV) ; with this, I say, he says, he shows him to whom [622A] he speaks to be God and man. For when he says: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; the scepter of guidance is the scepter of thy kingdom, does he not plainly call him God? Then when he says: Thou hast loved righteousness. and hated iniquity, therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy companions , we perceive him to speak to man. For God hath neither God, nor companions. Likewise David elsewhere in the Psalm: O God, give thy judgment unto the king, and thy righteousness unto the king’s son (Ps. LXXI) , and whatever else there is in the Psalm, tell me now who is this king’s son? Solomon or Christ, who was to come of David himself, and to be called his son?

Moses : I do not wish to trouble you about this. For it was said of Christ, as our teachers taught. [622B]

Peter : Since then you have granted that it is a psalm about Christ, let us see whether those things which are read in the same: And he shall abide with the sun and before the moon for generation and generation; and: Blessed be his name for ever, his name endureth before the sun ; and that: And all kings shall adore him, all nations shall serve him (Ps. 71) ; let us see, I say, whether all these things are said of a pure man, but by no means, but of God. It follows, therefore, that we say that Christ is both man and God. Which also, because David knew by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, and foresaw the miracles which he was to do, therefore he ended the psalm in this manner: Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, who alone does wonders, and blessed be the name of his majesty for ever, and the whole earth shall be filled with his majesty . Likewise in the book [622C] Dabrejamin, that is, Words of Days, it is read [Paralipomenon], that when David was thinking of building a house for the Lord, Nathan the prophet said to him in the person of the Lord in these words: When your days are fulfilled to go to your fathers, I will raise up your seed after you, which shall be of your sons, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build me a house, and I will establish his throne for ever. I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son, and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it away from him who was before you, and I will establish him in my house and in my kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever (1 Chron. 18) . Tell me, I say, O Moses, of whom was this prophecy spoken?

Moses : Of Solomon. [622D]

Peter : This cannot be. For when he says, when you have fulfilled your days to go to your fathers , that is, when you are dead, I will raise up your seed after you , it is clear that it was not said of Solomon: for Solomon was already king while his father was still alive. But if he had wanted to say it of Solomon, he would certainly not have said, what will be of your sons , but, what will be of you. What also follows, and I will set him in my house and in my kingdom forever, and his throne will be established forever , is clearly acknowledged not to have been said of Solomon. For Solomon was neither established in the house of God or in his kingdom, nor was his throne established forever. And since this belongs to God alone, then he of whom this is spoken was both a man who would be and had been God. [623A]

Moses : When you understand, Peter, that all these things were said for the sake of Christ, who is he of whom he said, ” He shall build me a house?” What was that house which Christ was about to build?

Peter : We understand the Holy Church by that house which Christ built upon the firm rock.

Moses : What then did Nathan answer David, concerning the house which he said he wanted to build for the Lord?

Peter : Indeed, this is what David himself , speaking of his son Solomon, reports: The word of the Lord came to me, he says, saying: You have shed much blood, and have fought many wars; you will not be able to build a house for my name, because of so much bloodshed in my sight. Behold, a son is born to you, a man of great peace, for I will make him [623B] seek refuge from all his enemies on every side, for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness in Israel all his days. He shall build a house for my name, and he shall be my son, and I will be his father, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever (1 Chron. 22) . And this indeed I grant that it was said of Solomon because of that: Behold, a son is born to you , and afterward, he shall be called Solomon . Which David also testifies speaking to the children of Israel about the same in these words. Of my sons, for the Lord has given me many sons, he has chosen Solomon my son (1 Chron. 28) . And this speech of David to Solomon is indeed entirely different from that which Nathan said to David concerning Christ. For here it is read, A son is born to you, and he shall be called Solomon : but there, [623C] because I will raise up your seed after you, which shall be of your sons; and he gives him no name. There also he says, And I will establish him in my house, and in my kingdom for ever, and his throne shall be established for ever . But here only, I will establish his throne over Israel for ever . By which it is shown that, as long as the kingdom of Israel continued, a king would not fail from the seed of Solomon, but the kingdom of Christ would always have no end (Isa. 9; Luke 1) . But the kingdom of Christ was also without condition, but the promise of Solomon was conditional. For we read of him in the Book of Kings, where David speaks thus to his son Solomon: The Lord confirm, he says, his words, which he spoke to me, saying: If your children will keep my law, and walk before me in truth, with all their heart [623D] and with all their soul, there shall not fail you a man on the throne of Israel (3 Kings 2) . David himself also testifies to that prophecy which we have foretold, namely, when you have fulfilled your days , etc.; he testifies, I say, that it was uttered for the sake of Christ. For hearing it, and understanding it as we have explained, but also giving thanks to God for it, he says: Who am I, Lord God, and what is my house, that you have brought me thus far? But even this seemed a small thing in your sight, O God, unless you had spoken of the house of your servant even afar off, and you had seen me in the law of the man exalted by the Lord God (2 Kings 7) . For this which he says, who am I, Lord God, and what is my house, that you have brought me thus far, he said of himself and his son Solomon; but what he then brought in, but this too seemed little in your sight, unless you spoke of the house of your servant even afar off , this he truly said for the sake of Christ, whom he saw would come from his own house. But also by this which he says: And you saw me in the law of the man exalted by the Lord God , since he also said this of Christ, he certainly indicates that both man and God must be exalted.

Title IX.

That Christ came at that time, where it was foretold by the prophets that he would come, and whatever they preached about him, They were evident in him and his works.

Moses : Since then you have shown by many authorities [624B] that he whom you say would be Christ could also be God, by what authority, I ask, can you show that he has already come, as you believe? For perhaps he has not come for a long time, but he will come in time to come.

Peter : There are many things, O Moses, which clearly show that he has come. For the time in which the prophets predicted that he would come has passed, and we know that he has come in it, and besides that many other things which we have recognized in him and in his words and works, as was foretold by the prophets.

Moses : First of all, I beg you to show us about the time, namely, where and how the prophets spoke from that time, and how they concluded it.

Peter : We read indeed that Jacob, speaking to his sons [624C] and calling each one to him, blessed them and said: The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a ruler from his thigh, until he come who is to be sent, and to him the nations shall be gathered (Gen. 49) . But I will not explain this prophecy otherwise than your ancient teachers explained it. For they also said: The scepter, that is, the rod, shall not depart from the kingdom of Judah, nor a ruler from his thigh , that is, from his sons’ sons forever, until he comes who is to be sent , that is, Christ, whose kingdom is, and to him the nations shall be gathered . And we indeed know that, after Christ came, there was no longer any king or ruler from Judah. ​​Therefore we must believe that here the time of Christ’s coming was determined, and that he who came at that time, without a scruple of doubt, was Christ. Likewise in the [624D] book of Daniel, concerning the time of Christ’s coming, the angel spoke to Daniel thus: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sin, and to make an end of iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to fulfill the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore and understand. From the going forth of the word, that Jerusalem should be built again, until Christ the Prince, there shall be seven weeks. And there shall be threescore and two weeks, and the street and the wall shall be built again in the trouble of the times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Christ be slain, and the people shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that shall come, and the end thereof shall be desolation, and after the end of the war shall be desolation. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week shall the sacrifice and the offering be taken away, and in the temple shall be the abomination of desolation, and the desolation shall continue until the consummation and the end (Dan. 9) . This prophecy, O Moses, is indeed closed, and difficult to understand, and there are many terms designated therein, but yet all are set forth to show the coming of Christ. First of all, therefore, it must be known that these weeks of years are weeks. When therefore he says: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon the city of thy sanctuary, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sin, and to make an end of iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to fulfill the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies; when [625B]That, I say, he said, he wished to note, because seventy sevens, that is, forty and ninety years, were established from the same year of the prophecy until the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, which was done by Titus the Roman emperor, at the time of the destruction of which Christ had already come, who was both the justice of the ages and the holy one, by whom also all sin and iniquity was destroyed, and every prophecy was fulfilled. But all the rest that follows are set forth for the division and determination of these four hundred and ninety years. By this, then, that from the end of the speech, that Jerusalem should be built again, until Christ the leader is seven weeks , it is inferred that from the day of this prophecy until Cyrus the leader of the Persians, who is called Christ [625C] by God himself through Isaiah (Isa. XLV) , there were seven weeks of years, that is, fifty and nine years, by whose command Cyrus began to rebuild Jerusalem. In the rebuilding of which and after the work was completed, until the coming of Titus over Jerusalem there were four hundred and thirty-four years, and this is what he says: Sixty-two weeks , that is, four hundred and thirty-four years, and the street and the wall shall be built again in the strait of times, and after seven weeks Christ shall be slain , which is after seventy weeks, and after Christ shall be slain. The city and the sanctuary shall be destroyed , namely, by the Roman people, with the leader who shall come , that is, with Titus, and its end shall be devastation, and after the end of the war the desolation appointed . But what follows, will confirm the pact of many [625D] weeks , that one week is certainly seven years of siege. For the city was besieged by the Roman army for seven years, and within those seven years they were so constrained and afflicted within that they had no means of making sacrifice, and this is what he says: In the middle of the week , that is, within the week, the sacrifice and the sacrifice will cease, and in the temple will be the abomination of desolation . What is also added, until the consummation and the end, the desolation will continue , insinuates that captivity and that desolation would be at the end. Therefore seven weeks until Cyrus, and sixty-two weeks from Cyrus to Titus, and one week of siege, are certainly seventy weeks. [626A]

Moses : After you have asserted the time of Christ’s coming from the testimonies of the prophets, about whom it was sufficiently clear, as you said, I want you to carry out those other things which were evident in him and his works, and in the words which, as you assert, were foretold about him by the prophets.

Peter : We read in Deuteronomy that Moses, when his death was now approaching, thus spoke to the people of Israel: A prophet , he says, of your people and of your brothers, like me, the Lord your God will raise up for you, him you shall hear, as you asked of the Lord your God in Horeb, when the assembly was gathered together and you said: I will not hear the voice of the Lord my God any more, and I will not see this great fire any more, lest I die. And the Lord said to me: They have spoken all well. I will raise up for them a prophet from among their brothers like you, and I will put [626B] my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. But whoever will not hear his words which he shall speak in my name, I will be an avenger (Deut. 18) . Who is this, O Moses, who is this whom the Lord says should be raised up like Moses, and commands that he should be heard?

Moses : Certainly the same could be said of Joshua, the son of Nun, who rose up after Moses and in his place.

Peter : Certainly it can be about Joshua, a mulatto. For the Scripture speaks openly of him, as in the book of Numbers we read: Moses answered the Lord: Let the Lord God of the spirits of all flesh provide a man over this multitude, who can go out and come in before them, and lead them out or bring them in, lest the people of the Lord be like sheep without a shepherd . [626C] And the Lord said to him: Take Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit of God, and lay your hand on him. And he shall stand before Eleazar the priest, and all the multitude, and you shall give him commands in the sight of all, and part of your glory, and all the congregation of the children of Israel shall hear him (Num. 27) . But since Joshua is so openly spoken of here, why does that other prophecy which is so closed, namely that prophecy, the Lord your God will raise up for you , and the rest; why, I say, should that which is said of him be understood? But also by this which is read: You shall give him part of your glory , as if he were saying not all your glory, by which it is shown that he was not like Moses, and at the end of Deuteronomy: There arose no more a prophet in Israel like Moses (Deut. XXXIV) ; by this, I say, it is inferred that it was not said of Joshua: The Lord your God will raise up for you , etc., when it follows in the same, like you . But in another way they differ, that prophecy which is: The Lord will raise up for you , etc., and those which are said of Joshua. For in that it is stated, whosoever will not hear his words, I will be an avenger ; but of Joshua it is read, whosoever shall contradict thy mouth, and shall not obey all the words which thou shalt command him, let him die the death . It is therefore clear in all ways, that that prophecy was not uttered of Joshua.

Moses : Of whom then?

Peter : Of Christ, who was like Moses, because like Moses he also gave the law.

Moses : Now therefore show the individual parts of the prophecy [627A] , how you can apply them all to him.

Peter : This prophecy indeed responds to the request of the children of Israel. For they had asked, as it is written (Exod. 20) , on Mount Horeb, that they should no longer hear the voice of the Lord visibly, or only look at the fire, lest they die. On the contrary, the Lord says to Moses (Deut. 18) : I will raise up for them a prophet from among their brothers like you , as if he were saying: He whom I will raise up will be from their offspring of the Jews, but he will also be like you, that is, as you gave the law, so he will give, which is also noted by this, that he placed the prophet singularly and by excellence. For if he himself were not going to give the law, he would have said prophets, not prophets . For God raised up many prophets [627B] who announced his words, but none of them gave the law in the likeness of Moses, except Christ. And I will put my words in his mouth , which is, because they cannot endure the force of my voice, through him I will speak to them under the veil of flesh. He will speak to them all that I command him . As if he were to say openly: Except what I will and command, he will say nothing at all: But whosoever will not hear his words which he shall speak in my name, I will be his avenger , that is, whosoever will not be killed, nor in any other way punished carnally, but I myself will avenge him mercifully according to my pleasure. Therefore, since Christ, both born of the seed of the Jews, and as Moses the lawgiver, existed and the Word of God was hidden under the veil of his flesh, taught nothing [627C] other than what God the Father commanded, as he himself testifies in the Gospel and says: The word which ye have heard is not mine, but his of the Father who sent me (John 12) , he himself did not wish to be killed or punished bodily, but preached mercy in all things, certainly there is nothing to prevent the whole prophecy from being spoken about him.

Moses : There still remains one thing about which I want you to answer me. For since Christ, as you believe, was both God and man, how did you call him a prophet?

Peter : You seem to think that prophet is only a human name, but by no means, indeed, whoever speaks of things to come is called a prophet. In Isaiah it is also read thus: Behold my servant , [627D] I have upheld him, my chosen one, my soul delights in him. I have put my spirit upon him, he shall bring forth judgment to the nations. He shall not cry, nor be exalted, nor shall his voice be heard without. A bruised reed shall he not break, and a smoking flax shall he not quench; in truth he shall bring forth judgment; he shall not fail or fail, till he have set judgment in the earth, and the islands shall wait for his law (Isa. XLII) . But this prophecy, O Moses, to whom can we better apply than to Christ? For he was both God’s servant, and his chosen one, in whom God was well pleased. And this indeed was said of him according to the body. But what follows, I have put my spirit upon him , is spoken according to the soul. Judgment , that is, the law, shall bring forth [628A] to the nations . For Christ brought forth the law which was closed and covered, and among the Jews only, that is, he explained it, made it plain, and extracted its marrow; in order that the Gentiles might receive it. It follows, He shall not cry, nor be exalted, or His voice shall be heard without . And we know that Christ was not clamorous, nor arrogant, nor a seeker of vain glory (John 13; Matt. 2) , but above all things He loved humility. He will not break a bruised reed, and will not quench a smoking wick . We see indeed that a bruised reed can be easily broken: but a smoking wick, that is, a burnt wick, but yet still retaining smoke, that is, a fire, can be very easily extinguished. But what can be understood by a bruised reed, or a nearly extinguished wick, better than the fragility of the sinner, who is bruised [628B] and nearly extinguished in sin? But Christ did not break the bruised reed, and did not quench the smoking flax, because He did not command sinners, who were almost dead in their sins, to be killed, but mercifully tolerated them (Matt. iii.) , and called them to repentance (Matt. xi.), which the Prophet also indicated in the following when he added: He will bring forth judgment in truth . For truth and justice are the same. But in the law of Moses there was judgment and a commandment, that the sinner should be killed. But Christ brought judgment to truth and justice, when He commanded that sinners should not be killed, but, which is more just, that they should be endured until they repented, when He said: I desire not the death of the sinner, but rather that he should turn and live (Ezek. xxiii.). He will not fail or escape until He has set judgment in the earth . [628C]The Prophet indeed wished to mark the death of Christ by a defect, but by an escape his ascension into heaven. As if he were saying: He will not die or depart from the earth, that is, he will ascend into heaven, until he sends the law on earth. And Christ indeed before he died according to the flesh, or ascended to the Father into heaven, he established judgment on earth, when he gave us the law, that is, the Gospel. But he said he will by no means die, but will not fail , because the death of Christ was not truly death, but as it were a certain passing and defect. For a man who dies no longer lives. But Christ rose again on the third day and now lives for ever (John 13) , and the islands will wait for his law . By islands we understand the nations. But the nations waited for the law of Christ, because they did not receive it from him, but from [628D] his disciples, that is, from the apostles. For neither he, nor the apostles, preached it to the nations. Likewise in Isaiah: I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and have taken thee by the hand, and have kept thee, and have given thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles, to open the eyes of the blind, and to bring out the prisoner from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. I the Lord; this is my name: I will not give my glory to another, nor my praise to graven images (Isa. XLII) . And this also Isaiah brought out of Christ. For the Lord called him from the womb of a Virgin in righteousness, that is, without sin and lust of the flesh; Christ was born of a holy and just Virgin of pure flesh (Luke 1; (Isa. 7) . He took hold of her hand, which is a sign [629A] of protection and patronage, and preserved her, as he rescued her from the hand of Herod while she was still crying, led her into Egypt and brought her back (Matt. 2) , often delivered her from the hands of the Jews who wanted to stone her and kill her (Luke 4; John 8) , and in many other adversities of his, he was her guardian and protector. The Lord gave her into the covenant of the people of Israel, namely, that is, he gave her for this purpose, that she might show the people of Israel the truth of the law. And the Lord gave her into the light of the Gentiles (John 18) , because the Gentiles, having abandoned error and cast out the darkness of their unbelief, were sprinkled with the light of the law of Christ. And he sent her further to open the eyes of the blind, and to bring out the prisoner from the prison house, and those sitting in darkness from the prison house. And Christ opened the eyes of the blind, when he [629B]He opened the hearts of the wicked, and having driven away the shadow of the law, showed the light. He led the prisoner out of the prison, because even to this day he frees and releases those who believe in him from all captivity. He also led out of the prison house those who sat in darkness, because he descended into hell himself and brought out those who were held in the dark prison of hell. The Lord did not give his glory and praise to any other than Christ, because he never united his divinity to any other man, or attributed such praise to him. Likewise Isaiah: Seek the Lord while he may be found, call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he is of great forgiving. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways , says the Lord; for as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts. And as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and return thither no more, but water the earth, and make it bud and bud, and give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth. It shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please (Isa. 55) . And tell me, O Moses, how do you explain this whole word? When is the Lord found, and when is he not found? When is he near, and when is he far off?

Moses : To find God and to be near is the same thing. But He is near and is found by those who faithfully serve Him. [629D]

Peter : The Lord truly desires to be nearer, and offers himself more to sinners and those who seem to be far off, than to the just and faithful and those who are near, as you say. Which the prophet also testifies elsewhere, where he says: Peace, peace to him who is far off, and to him who is near, saith the Lord (Isa. 57) . For what do we understand by him who is far off from God, but the sinner, and by him who is near, but the just? And the prophet first said he who is far off, and afterwards he who is near, and thus he showed that God is nearer to the sinner than to the just.

Moses : We can also say that God is near during those ten days, which are from the first day of the seventh month until the day of atonement, for so it was said by our teachers.

Peter : And this also is evil. For if only during those ten [630A] days God is near and is found, then if at another time the sinner, wishing to be converted, seeks God, and does not find Him because He is far away, then it will be God’s fault and not the sinner’s, that he cannot be converted to God.

Moses : Our teachers also say something else, namely, that God was near and could be found as long as the temple of the Lord stood, but when the temple was destroyed He distanced Himself, and no longer wished to be found.

Peter : And in this also they were fools. For against this also Moses says to the children of Israel, that if at any time they provoked God to wrath, so that he scattered them among the nations as captives, yet if at last they returned and sought him, they would without doubt find him (Exod. XXXIV; Deut. XXXII) . [630B]

Moses : Since you contradict both this and that, then when and how do you assert that God is found or is near?

Peter : The Lord was indeed found and near, when He assumed flesh from the holy Virgin, and dwelt among us present, and then indeed the prophet commanded that He be sought and invoked, when he said, Seek the Lord , etc. For he foresaw this also to come to pass by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, whence he added in the following: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, and turn to the Lord , namely, lest they should think unrighteously of Him, or doubt that He is God because He assumed flesh, but rather let them believe faithfully, for faith is in thought alone (John 17) . And the thought of man who is different from the thought of God. Whence it follows: For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways, says the Lord , as if he were saying: Do not think that what you see and hear, namely the Son without a fleshly Father, is contrary to use, for I am one thing, and you think another. For you do not think except bodily, but I do spiritually. I also walk differently, and you walk differently. For you have not known the way except that which is in use, but I also know that which is contrary to use, and I can do whatever I want. And this is: As the heavens are exalted above the earth , etc. But what follows: As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and return thither no more, but water the earth, and water it, and make it sprout [630D] , and give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: so shall the word that shall go forth out of my mouth be, it shall not return to me void, but shall do whatsoever I will . He added this, of course, in order to show by the likeness of visible things, which in the subtlety of the divinity could not be seen so clearly, and he said: As the rain when it comes down from heaven, it does not return again to heaven, before it softens the earth, makes it fruitful and sprout, so also my word that shall go forth out of my mouth, that is, my Son, whom I am about to send into the world to take flesh, shall not return to me void, but, before he returns, he shall accomplish whatsoever I will, that is, as I have arranged, assume flesh, be scourged, die, rescue his own from hell. and rise again, and open the law that was closed to those who understand less. But if God wished to be understood as saying of His word, that is, of His discourse, when He says, ” My word which shall go forth out of my mouth ,” He would certainly not have added, ” It shall not return to me ,” etc. For neither does a word, that is, speech, after it has once gone out of the mouth, return to the mouth again. By this, therefore, He clearly shows that He said “My word” of the person of the Son.

Moses : Now from your words it is inferred that after snow and rain are sent down from heaven, they return to heaven again.

Peter : It is true.

Moses : I would just like to show myself by what reason this can be proven.

Peter : You must first examine where the clouds and rain come from, and thus you will more easily find what you are seeking. [631B]

Moses : I pray that you will make it clear to me.

Peter : You must see, therefore, O Moses, that when the sun is in a straight line over the sea and the land, a moist vapor rises from the sea, but a dry vapor rises from the land, but it also ascends upward by the heat of the sun, just as the smoke of water rises by the heat of fire, and when the two vapors come upward, mixing with each other, they form dense clouds. But when the clouds have risen about sixteen miles into the air, they find there cold air, from which they can no longer pass any higher, and so they fall back to the earth, and from them come the rains. But God made the hollows of the mountains, so that there the rains might be received as if in a certain treasure. He also made in the very extremities of the mountains [631C] certain small holes, through which the water is gradually drawn out, which was kept hidden as if in a treasure, and these are the springs from which all rivers come. By these rivers all fish are nourished, meadows and vineyards are irrigated, and the crops of men and animals are watered, and small villages and great cities are overflowed. The proof of this is that when the rain fails, the springs and rivers dry up, as we find in the third book of Kings, when Elijah says: And after some days the torrent dried up, for it had not rained on the earth (3 Kings 17) . But the rivers, after they have flowed over the earth for a long time, at length reach the seas and are composed of the waves of the sea, and thus the vapor of the sea rises upwards, as we have said above [631D] , and from itself again makes clouds, and this ascent or descent has no end, nor has it ever been, since God composed the world, but neither will it be, as long as it pleases the Creator of things, as Solomon testifies, who says in Ecclesiastes: All rivers enter the sea, and the sea is not full. To the place from which they come forth, the rivers return, that they may flow again (Ecclesiastes 1) .

Moses : You have indeed cited many authorities from the books of the prophets, and have explained them according to your will, but I would like to show you at least one that is clear to me, by which what you intend can be clearly approved.

Peter : Surely the hardness of your heart and that of your kind is not new. For you did not believe it when the prophets spoke to you plainly and without allegory, so it is not surprising if my words of explanation seem deaf to you. Nevertheless, in order to cut off all your occasions and objections, I will now tell you one very clear authority from Isaiah himself. For Isaiah himself says: Behold, my servant shall understand, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high. As many were astonished at you, so his appearance shall be indescribable among men, and his form among the sons of men. He shall sprinkle many nations. Kings shall shut their mouths over him, because they have seen what was not told them, and have contemplated what they had not heard. Who has believed our report (Rom. 10), and the arm of the Lord to whom it has been revealed? And he shall come up as a tender plant before him, and as a root out of a thirsty ground. He has no form or comeliness , and we saw him, and there was no appearance to him, and we desired him, despised, and the last of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with infirmity, and his face was as it were hidden and despised, wherefore we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our infirmities, and carried our sorrows. And we esteemed him as smitten, and smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; every one hath turned to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth. He is led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb before her , so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken out of trouble and from judgment. Who shall declare his generation? (Jer. XI; Acts VIII) Because he was cut off from the land of the living. For the iniquity of my people he was smitten, and made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich his death, though he had done no iniquity, neither was there deceit in his mouth (1 Pet. II), and the Lord was pleased to crush him, and to make him weak. If he shall offer his soul for sin, he shall see seed, and the time shall be prolonged, and the will of the Lord shall be directed in his hand. He shall see of the labour of his soul, and be satisfied. By his knowledge he shall justify the righteous with many, and he shall bear their iniquities himself. Therefore will I cause him to share with many, and he shall divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his soul unto death , and was numbered with the transgressors, and he himself shall bear the sin of many, and shall make intercession for the transgressors (Isa. LII; LIII). I have labored much, O Moses, in this prophecy, above all others, that I might introduce it according to what is with you, in which even blessed Jerome, though I have abandoned the true translation. But I have done this, that I might take away all your occasions. Which since we apply to Christ, and you perhaps do not grant, I would like to tell you of whom you understand it to be said.

Moses : Certainly some of our teachers assert that it was said of Jeremiah, because he was scourged, beaten, and imprisoned (Jer. XI) , and suffered many other evils which it is too long to enumerate. But according to others we understand it of King Josiah, [633A] who, although he was a holy and just man, was killed for the sins not of himself, but of the people (2 Kings XXIII) .

Peter : Certainly it can be about neither of these. For you will not be able to apply the whole prophecy to either. For if you understand about Jeremiah, Jeremiah indeed endured scourges, imprisonment, and much affliction, but he was neither killed, nor did he remain silent when he was scourged, nor did he bear our sins, nor will you apply the rest to him. But of Josiah you will find nothing that could be said in prophecy except that he was both holy and was killed for the wickedness of the people.

Moses : Of whom then do you understand the prophecy spoken, to whom can you apply all its parts?

Peter : Of Christ. For what he said, behold my servant shall understand, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high , we know indeed that Christ was both the servant of God and had great understanding, and was exalted and exalted above all the servants of God. Whose works were both wonderful and stupendous, and he never cared for glory. And this is, as many were astonished at thee, so shall his appearance be inglorious among men, and his form among the sons of men. It follows: He shall sprinkle many nations . And the Lord Christ indeed rained as it were a great rain upon the nation of Israel, when he came among them as unto his own (John 1) , and shewed them his works and great things. But he sprinkled many other nations, because he watered them not by the presence of signs, but by the hearing and fame of them, as with a certain dew from afar, and he made them all stupid and silent with amazement. Whence it is: Kings shall hold their mouths over him , because that which was not told them they have seen, and that which they have not heard they have contemplated , as it was told to the Jews about him, and they have heard. Which the prophet himself, marveling, says: Who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? As if he were saying: So wonderful are the things which I preach to come, that there will scarcely be any that will judge them to be believed, namely, that the arm of the Lord should be revealed, that is, that his Son should be incarnate, and thus be visibly shown to the world by the flesh he assumed. And he shall come up , he says, as a branch before him, and as a root out of a thirsty ground . We see indeed that from a thirsty ground, that is, from a dry land, neither a branch nor a root can be produced without moisture. For moisture is as it were the male of the sun. But Christ came up as a root or a branch out of a dry ground before the Lord, when from the flesh of the Virgin without the copulation of the sea God the Father begot him. But what he added, he has no form or beauty, and we saw him and there was no appearance, and we desired him despised, and the last of men , he added to show his humility, and contempt for worldly pomp. Him , he says, a man of sorrows . He was indeed a man of sorrows, because neither in infancy, nor childhood, nor youth, was he without the plots of evildoers, and labor, whence he was of greater fame, and of greater notoriety, which is known by his infirmity . For here by this infirmity the prophet wished to understand nothing else than the miseries and labors which Christ endured according to the flesh in the world [634A] . It follows: As if his face were hidden and despised, whence we did not esteem him.. The face of Christ was as it were hidden, because, and under his flesh the splendor of his divinity was hidden, and he refused to resist those who attacked him when he could, wherefore he was despised and not regarded, that is, not appreciated. And truly he himself bore our infirmities, and he himself bore our sorrows , since he himself endured the pains and punishments which were due to our crimes. And we thought him as if stricken and smitten by God and humbled , that is, we thought that the plague, that is, that scourge and beating, and that depression, had befallen him for himself, but not at all. And this is what he says: But he was wounded for our iniquities, he was bruised for our sins . [634B] And the chastisement of our peace upon him , that is, the discipline and correction which we were to suffer in order to have peace, he himself endured for us, as he is merciful and kind. Whence it follows, that by his stripes we are healed , namely, by the stripes of the stripes and wounds which he endured for us. It also follows: All we like sheep have gone astray, and each one has turned to his own way . Sheep are indeed simple and most stupid animals and wanderers. And we foolish sheep have gone astray , because we do not know who or what he was, but each one has turned to his own way , that is, hardly anyone believed his doctrine, but everyone retained his old one. And the Lord laid on him the iniquity of us all , that is, the original sin, by which we are all ensnared, through [634C] him, that is, through the baptism which the Lord himself gave, he forgives and washes away. He was oppressed and afflicted, and he did not open his mouth, and he will be led like a lamb to the slaughter, and like a sheep before its shearer he will be dumb, and he will not open his mouth . All this does not need explanation, indeed it is evident to all. For Christ, being brought before Pilate, falsely accused, beaten, and even beaten with the staff, remained silent, and when Pilate himself questioned him many times, he answered scarcely a word. But what follows: He was taken away from straitness and judgment , is said by the endiadim. For he says from straitness and judgment , instead of from narrow judgment. And we indeed call narrow judgment, judgment unjust. But Christ was taken away from narrow judgment, that is, through narrow and unjust judgment [634D] he was taken away, when he had done nothing wrong. Who will declare his generation? He certainly brought this out of the divine generation, which is ineffable and ineffable, and by this he showed that he would be God. Whence it also follows: He was cut off from the land of the living. For the iniquity of my people he was stricken , which is the same as what he said above,He was wounded for our iniquities, he was bruised for our sins. And he was buried with the wicked, and with the rich his death . He is the same with the wicked and the rich. For the rich of this world are almost all wicked (Matt. 19; Luke 18; 1 Tim. 6) . But among the Jews it was the custom to bury the wicked, and those who were killed for some crime, outside the communion of men . And Christ was crucified with the wicked, that is, with thieves, and died, and was buried outside the common burial, although he had done no iniquity, nor was guile in his mouth , but so the Lord willed, as it is written in the following: And the Lord willed to bruise him and to make him weak , that is, to suffer. If he shall lay down his soul for sin, he shall see the seed , etc. We know certainly that in ancient times the Scripture called the sacrifice which was made for sin, by the name of sin. Whence also here the prophet says: If thou , O Lord, lay down thy soul , that is, the soul of Christ, for sin , that is, for the sacrifice of sin, that is, if it shall be sacrificed for our sin, he shall see seed , that is, great seed, and shall have many heirs (2 Cor. 5). And Christ by the sacrificial [635B] fication of his body, and his death, saw great seed, and very many heirs, and the time is long, and the will of the Lord was fulfilled in him: He shall see of the labor of his soul, and shall be satisfied . As if he were saying: His soul shall labor so much, that when he shall see that labor, because it was so great, he shall be satisfied, that is, it shall seem too much to himself, as it is said even today, I have endured so much evil and distress, that I was made from it. And Christ endured great distresses and labors. In his knowledge he shall justify the righteous by many , that is, by his knowledge he who is righteous will show to many that the Lord is righteous. But Christ was both righteous, and the Lord showed him to be righteous by many. But what follows, and their iniquities he himself will bear , is the same as what he said above, truly [635C] he himself bore our infirmities, and he himself carried our sorrows. Therefore , says the Lord, I will make him share in many things, and he will divide the spoils with the strong . And Christ shared in many things, because many from many nations believed in him. And he divided the spoils with the strong, because, having divided the spoils with the princes of hell who had plundered this world, he carried away his portion as if it were a spoil, when he rescued from there those who had believed that he would come. It follows: For he delivered his soul unto death. He indeed repeats the reason why he participated in many things, namely, because out of his great piety he endured to die for the redemption of the world. It also follows. And he was reckoned with the wicked . And Christ, as we have said before, was reckoned with the wicked, because he was hanged with the thieves. And he himself bore the sin of many , not of all , because he saved not all, but many. It also follows: And he will pray for the transgressors . But Christ prayed for the transgressors, when he prayed for those who crucified him, saying: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do (Luke 23:11) . Since therefore, O Moses, both the time and all other things which the prophets preached about Christ, were made manifest in him whom we believe to have been himself, but also in his words and works, it is evident that he has truly come, and you should no longer doubt it.

Moses : I understand what you have said quite well. But if it is so, why are all the other things which are written in the prophets about Christ not fulfilled in this one whom you say came as a man?

Peter : Which ones?

Moses : For the same Isaiah says of Christ: And he shall judge the nations, and rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more (Isa. 2) . And these things are not yet accomplished, which will doubtless be accomplished after the coming of Christ. For even to this day nations fight one another.

Peter : You do not consider what you say in the way it was said. For it is not that which is, They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks, and nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they be trained for war any more , not, I say, did the prophet say that, by telling what the nations shall do, but by showing what Christ shall command, as also elsewhere Zechariah says of him: And he shall speak , he says, peace to the nations (Zech. ix) : For as here of that which he shall command peace (John 14) , we understand it to be said, so also there: which when he himself commanded, if it is not fulfilled, it was no fault of his.

Moses : For Jeremiah says: In those days , that is, of Christ, Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely (Jer. 23:1) . But this also is not yet completed, which should have been completed after the coming of that man whom you call Christ, if he were Christ. For Judah and Israel are still in misery and captivity. [636C]

Peter : This promise, O Moses, was made only to those who were to believe in Israel and Judah, and therefore it was not fulfilled in the unbelievers, as among the people of Israel, when they were led out of Egypt, some, because they sinned and departed from the commandments of the Lord, did not enter the land of promise (Ps. 94; Num. 14) , which the Lord promised to Moses, saying: I have come down to deliver them from the hands of the Egyptians, and to bring them out of that land into a good and fair land (Exod. 3) , yea, they all died in the wilderness.

Moses : Also another, which is not yet completed, which Isaiah prophesied would happen at the coming of Christ. For he says: The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the fatling shall lie down with the kid; the calf, the lion, and the lamb shall dwell together, and a little child shall lead them; the calf and the bear shall feed, their young ones shall lie down together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox (Isa. XI: 65) .

Peter : O Moses, most foolish of all, do you understand this prophecy simply as it is stated?

Moses : Yes.

Peter : In that, indeed, the ignorance of your heart is evident. For if, as you say, the wolf has no peace except with the lamb, nor the leopard except with the kid, nor the lion except with the sheep and calf, what will be the benefit of such a confederation? For in [637A] both the wolf will rest with the kid, and the lion with the lamb, and the leopard with the sheep and calf.

Moses : How then do you understand it?

Peter : We certainly understand by those beasts which live on prey and flesh, impious men and raptors; but by the rest of the cattle, the meek and simple, and of them the Prophet said that Christ would command them to dwell together and have peace. But that this was intended to be understood of men, the Prophet insinuates in the following, when he subjoins, that the earth is filled with the knowledge of the Lord (Isa. 11) . For he did not say this on account of the cattle which, since they have neither a rational soul, cannot have the knowledge of the Lord, that is, the knowledge of the Lord. But to this destruction of your intelligence concerning this prophet, your teachers have said that there will be no distance [637B] between the modern time and the time of Christ, except that in his time you will go out from all captivity and misery.

Moses : Behold also another thing of Isaiah which we do not yet know to be fulfilled; for he himself also says: And the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the Lord shall bind up the wound of his people (Isa. xxx.) .

Peter : There is no nation in the whole world more foolish than you, who think that God increases the body or light of the moon or the sun: for if the sun were twice as great as it is now, it would certainly burn up the whole world, not to mention sevenfold; and if its light were sevenfold greater, it would dazzle our eyes with an excessive brightness. If the light of the moon were made equal to the brightness of the sun, no one would be at rest any longer, for it would always be day. By the increase of the light of the moon or the sun, therefore, the prophet wished to understand the faith and glory of those who would believe in Christ. As if he were saying: Their faith and glory will be many times greater and more transparent than those of modern times. And that the prophet is not speaking of this visible moon or sun, but of the glory and splendor of the Christian credulity, is testified in the following verses when he subjoins: The sun shall no more be thy light by day, neither shall the brightness of the moon give thee light; but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory; and thy sun shall no more go down, neither shall thy moon diminish: for the Lord shall be an everlasting light (Isa. 60) . [637D] For if he were to speak of the sun or moon properly, this which he says, The sun shall no more be thy light by day, nor the brightness of the moon give thee light , would be contrary to what he had said above, namely, there shall be light as the light of the sun, and it shall be sevenfold . It is clear, therefore, that the prophet is speaking here of the splendor and glory of the faith of the holy Church, which is also designated by the following verses, when he adds, But the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory . As if he were saying: No longer will you need the light of this cruelty of yours, which is like that passing sun, or the brightness of the moon, for the glory of his light will enlighten you eternally. But also what follows, your sun will no longer set, and your moon [638A] will not diminish : if this, I say, were understood simply, namely, that the brightness of the sun or moon were continuous, there would no longer be day or night, month or year, all of which come from the vicissitudes of the sun and moon. Therefore, not without reason do we understand this to be said spiritually of the light and glory of our faith, which will neither diminish nor set.

Moses : What is also what Isaiah further says: Then you will see and flow, and your heart will wonder and be enlarged, when the multitude of the sea will be turned to you, the strength of the nations will come to you, the overflowing of camels will cover you, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah, and all from Sheba will come, bringing gold and frankincense, and announcing the praise of the Lord? (Isa. 60) For these things also are not yet finished. [638B]

Peter : They were indeed completed at the time of the second temple, which Ezra built by the commandment of Cyrus, according to the testimony of Haggai the prophet, who said: Thus saith the Lord God of hosts: Yet a little while, and I will shake the heaven and the earth, the sea and the dry land. And I will shake all nations, and the desires of all nations shall come, and I will fill this house with glory, saith the Lord of hosts. The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the Lord of hosts. And in this place will I give peace, saith the Lord of hosts (Haggai. 11) . And since what Isaiah had there said would come to pass, Haggai indeed intimated that it should be accomplished in the temple which had already begun to be rebuilt in its own time.

Moses : It may indeed be as you say. [638C]

Peter : But tell me, O Moses, what is it that Haggai says, ” The glory of this latter house shall be greater than the first?” For in what was the glory of the latter house greater than that of the first, since in the latter there were not those precious emblems which were in the first? For neither was the ark of the Lord in the second, nor did they use the rational in it, nor did fire come down from heaven to consume the burnt offerings, nor was there at that time an anointed one or a prophet, and many other things also.

Moses : Of this we certainly know nothing, except what we have heard from our teachers, but they themselves said nothing else, except that the second house lasted ten years longer than the first.

Peter : This is certainly no glory. [638D]

Moses : Therefore Haggai undoubtedly lied.

Peter : Far be it. But in this the glory of the last house was greater than that of the first, that Christ came while it was still standing, whose coming was greater glory than all those mentioned above had. But this also, if you please, we can understand much more subtly, namely, that it is said of the same house, last and first , namely of its beginning and end. For when Christ came towards the end of it (Colossians 2) , through whom also the deity dwelt in that house, the glory of its last was certainly greater than its first. By the coming of which Christ all that both Isaiah and Haggai testify is completed. For at his coming, the multitude of the sea and the earth were turned to him , heaven, earth, and seas were moved. Moved, I say, are, that is , the heavens and the earth and their inhabitants rejoiced, and from every part of Jerusalem they brought various offerings to the praise of Christ himself.

Moses : Why should I now object to you any further, since you explain all my authorities according to your will?

Peter : Truth has strong pillars on which it rests.

Title X.

That by the Jews of their own free will Christ was crucified and killed.

Moses : To the point, Peter, I want us to return and answer me, I beg, about the other parts of your credulity. [639B] Since then you believe that Christ was both man and God, why did he suffer himself to be crucified, and not deliver himself from the hands of the Jews? For how is the power of omnipotence diminished?

Peter : He could indeed have protected and preserved himself if he had wished, but he endured this of his own accord for the salvation of his people, although the flesh which was of the world did not please him. For the Word of God did not take flesh for any other reason than that he might deliver from the captivity of the devil those who had believed in him and would believe (John 1) .

Moses : From this speech of yours, many questions arise: first, what is the devil; second, why has man fallen into his power; third, why did God deliver men from his hand, since he suffered them to fall into it; fourth, [639C] why when he wanted to redeem them he did not do this by his own power, but rather preferred to become incarnate and suffer.

Peter : Since you have said many things at once, and it is not possible to answer fully about many things at once, ask me if you please about each one, and I will answer what I think from that.

Moses : First of all, therefore, I desire to hear what the devil is.

Peter : The devil, O Moses, is indeed a subtle and spiritual thing, and was once one of the good orders of angels. Two of the princes of which order are called Huza and Hazazel in Hebrew, but Haroth and Maroth in the Arabic language. And this devil, burdened with his sin and iniquity, and made as it were a little [639D] heavier, and thus having fallen from the highest heavens, descended a little lower, and his dwelling is here below the firmament.

Moses : It is certainly written among us that there are devils, and that their leaders were called Huza and Hazazel, but I would gladly like to hear by what philosophical reason you can show that they exist, or what they are.

Peter : First of all, therefore, you must know that there are nine parts to that art which is called necromancy, the first four of which treat of the four elements, how we can work in them physically, and the remaining five how no one can work his spirit except by invoking evil spirits . Now those evil spirits are called devils by men.

Moses : But perhaps these were devils, never good angels, as you say, but always impious spirits.

Peter : This is certainly not true. For God made nothing but good, since it is read in the most true Scripture, ” God saw all that he had made, and, behold, it was very good” (Gen. 1) . But because they chose evil, therefore they became evil.

Moses : Since we know that there is a devil by both experimental argument and the approval of doctors, we should no longer doubt that he is not, nor do we need any further long discourse on this kind of question. Let us therefore leave this matter alone, and let us inquire why man has fallen into his [640B] will.

Peter : Since therefore God created Adam in His own image and likeness (ibid.) , and therefore excellent among creatures, composite and simple: composite indeed, that he might inhabit this world, and have power and dominion over it, and might also be susceptible to dissolution; simple, indeed, that when it pleased the Creator, he might pass to the heavenly country of the angels. without the death of the flesh: since, I say, God created him such, when the devil, who dwelt in this lower air near the earth, saw this, he envied him, and sought his damnation as much as he could, and that he should also transgress the commandment of God, and eat of the forbidden fruit, he inspired in his heart, for this reason, that he might fall from his dignity [640C] , as he himself also fell.

Moses : Before you say anything else, I want you to answer me. Peter, answer me, what is it that you say that Adam was made simple and composite, for it seems to be a contradiction, and you also, when we were disputing about the resurrection of the dead, denied that any body could be simple and composite. But there is another contradiction, that you said that he was created both susceptible to death, and such that without death he could pass to the country of the angels. For by the one he is shown to be mortal, but by the other he is shown to be immortal.

Peter : Know that all animals are composed of four [640D] elements. Which also vary according to the variety of the elements, in their composition according to their qualities and quantities unequally adjoined, for from this comes the dissimilarity of the different species. But since the elements of which they are composed, heat is opposed to cold, humidity to dryness, emptiness to solidity, heaviness to lightness, and subtlety to obtuseness, and all the other qualities that are in them are contrary to each other, therefore the composites of them also are always changing, namely they grow and decrease, become warm and cool, and are affected in turn by the other accidents. But with these qualities tending one to the expulsion of the other, if one increases a little and the other decreases a little, sickness comes instead . But if one abounds beyond measure and the other so decreases that it is not able to stand against it, the connected ones are dissolved, the adjoined ones are separated, the composites are destroyed, and that dissolution is called death. But when God created Adam, it pleased Him to create him such as could both die and not die. Therefore He made him of the more subtle elements, and absolutely equally of all, and this, so that their qualities would not have any power to overcome each other in any way. But he was made in such a way that he himself could not die, and therefore I called him simple and immortal. For in this way he was immortal, just as all other simple things are immortal. Of which certain animals give clear evidence, [641B] which, because they are created more equally than the other elements, undoubtedly live longer. But because Adam was made of four elements, and whatever is made of them is susceptible to dissolution, therefore I called him mortal and composite.

Moses : I like what you say. But since, as you assert, he both died and could not, why did mortality overcome immortality, so that even today every man is mortal?

Peter : This is what I have set out to explain, and this is the reason why Adam fell into the power of the devil. When therefore obedience to the Creator was allowed to pass into his heart, he thought about it; but after he thought, he chose; after he chose, he desired; after he desired, he did, but when he did, he sinned; after [641C] which he sinned, he lost the quality he had and thus immortality, and completely, as is the nature of composites, he assumed mortality, so that he could no longer be separated from him, whence he received this definition, that he was called rational and mortal, and that everyone who proceeded from his seed had the same nature as himself. For it is just that if anything proceeds from another, it should receive the likeness of his nature. But since the soul of Adam was of a more subtle nature than the body, and stronger, because it gave its assent to sin, and did not resist it when it could, every soul that mingled itself with a body born of that corruption, because of that fault, when it left the body, was no longer able to transcend the height of heaven which was of its nature [641D] , but rather remained in the lower air here near the earth. In which place, because it came as it were a stranger, but was a citizen of the devil, for this reason the devil had power over it and his desire which he himself had desired was fulfilled. Because also the sin of Adam was twofold, namely spiritual and bodily: spiritual indeed, because he chose to believe and obey the devil rather than God, which pertains to the spirit, but bodily, because he delighted in the sweetness of the forbidden fruit, which pertains to his body, therefore he himself suffered the death of the flesh and the death of the soul, namely a double punishment.

Moses : It seems to me that you have dealt with things in a sufficiently organized manner, [642A] how Adam, because of his sin, and thus every man, came into the power of the devil. But this also, if you know, I would have it revealed to me, what and how, according to physics, because of the transgression of the commandment, Adam lost that equality which he had in his composition.

Peter : Know therefore that since Adam was made equally of all the elements, he should have had an equal temper of affections, such as anger and sorrow, eating and drinking, and the rest, none of which in man is in excess or in deficiency, except by the excess of the elements or the diminution of the qualities. But when the devil counseled him to transgress the commandment of his Lord, and he himself thought of it, so that he chose to do it, and did not give his soul as much as it could for [642B] , from that time he began to sin and to depart from his equality, because he lost that temper, and desired to eat what he did not need, nay, what had been forbidden to him, and thus gradually he came to the point of work and ate, and then he completely lost his equality. But if he were to think about it in such a way that he would only consider whether it was good or bad, and would not even choose, he would undoubtedly neither sin nor lose his balance, for example, as when someone is neither too happy nor too sad, but is equal in both, if he then hears a rumor that makes him angry or not, if he wishes, but he himself thinks about it in such a way that he also bears what he has heard with pain, the red anger from which anger proceeds is stirred in him by this kind of thought, [642C] and so he becomes hot and angry, and the more hot he becomes, the more the anger is stirred, until he becomes completely angry, and thus that moderation and temper of sadness and joy that he had before is destroyed. But if he thinks about that rumor in such a way that he does not feel disgusted, neither the anger is stirred, nor does the man himself become hot or angry, nor is that temper separated from him.

Moses : We believe this indeed, that Adam sinned by the counsel of the serpent (Gen. 3) , and that by his sin every man is condemned to death. For our teachers testify that there were many men who would not have died at all but for the counsel of the serpent and the sin of Adam, but we do not believe that the souls of the saints descended to hell after death. [642D] Therefore, if you have any authority from that, I pray you show it to me.

Peter : I will indeed briefly explain it to you, but I will nevertheless quote some clear authorities from it. For in Genesis it is read of Jacob, that even when his daughters gathered to console him over his son Joseph, he refused to be consoled, saying: For I will go down to the grave mourning for my son (Gen. 37) .

Moses : This indeed Jacob said according to the body. For by the underworld he wished to understand the earth in which all are buried. As if he were saying: How long shall I die? and I will be buried in the earth with my son, lest I should always mourn even for death itself. [643A]

Peter : What you say is not true. For he knew that his son was not buried in the earth, but rather thought that he had been devoured by some beast. This, then, he said according to his soul: For I will go down to hell mourning for my son . As if he had said: Because my son is dead, I will die, and I will come to hell, where his soul is, and all the souls of the dead, mourning. Nay, David also testifies to this in the Psalm when he says: What is man that shall live and not see death, and shall deliver his soul from the hand of hell? (Ps. 88.) For by this in which he says: Who is man that shall live and not see death , he indicates that there is no man who does not die, but by this that he is, and shall deliver his soul from the hand of hell , he insinuates that no soul could at one time have been saved from the hand of hell. Hezekiah also, as we read in Isaiah, although he was a good and holy man, as he himself testifies in his prayer when he says: I beseech thee, O Lord, remember, I pray thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight (2 Kings 20) , although, I say, he was holy, yet he shows that he will go down to hell, when he says in the following verses: I said, In the half of my days I shall go to the gates of hell (Isa. 38) .

Moses : If it is so as you assert, then the souls of the patriarchs and the prophets, and of all the other saints who died before the death of him whom you call Christ, together with the souls of the wicked, have dwelt in one place. [643C]

Peter : It is certainly true that all were in obscurity and darkness, but not all were in places of punishment, or punishments, for each was rewarded according to his merits, but nevertheless all were in hell and under the law of the devil. For no one who died from Adam to the death of Christ escaped the prisons of hell, and we perceive this from the words of Moses, who, when he admonished the children of Israel to keep the commandments of the Lord, and foretold to them what rewards they would have from that, never promised anything about the blessedness of paradise. For it had already been known to all from that time that no one would enter there before the death of Christ.

Moses : I do not think that Moses delayed speaking of the future because of what you said , but he recognized that he could more easily warn them to obey God’s commandments by these visible goods which they most desired, or by the present evils and labors which they feared, to deter them from their iniquities, than if he had foretold future punishments, or by heavenly bliss which they did not know.

Peter : That is your wrong opinion. For if he were to speak of a double reward and a double punishment with them, he would be all the more admonishing them to avoid evil and to embrace good. Moreover, if you wish, I will show you, according to your own credulity, that the souls of the saints were in hell, and under the law of the devil, before the death of Christ. [644A]

Moses : I truly desire nothing but the truth.

Peter : First of all, therefore, I ask you in what place the souls of the saints were, since you believe that they were not in hell.

Moses : They were certainly in heaven.

Peter : Also about this, I beg you, answer, if you ever read or hear, how far higher the power of those who work in the necromantic art can ascend.

Moses : Up to the firmament only.

Peter : And can that pass to some extent?

Moses : It is strange what you ask, when you have heard it said in a proverb not only by wise men, but also by old men, “You have as much in this as the devil has in heaven.” [644B]

Peter : Now, therefore, I want you to tell me how you believe the event that is read in the first book of Kings (chapter 28) , namely, Samuel being raised by a woman who had a demon, was it true or fantastic?

Moses : In many ways the truth is shown, firstly indeed that he speaks openly from it, namely how he ascended from the earth, what his form, age, and clothing were, and how on the part of God he himself answered truthfully all that Saul asked, and whatever he said, there was nothing false from it, secondly, that Saul knew that the woman was in the power of the woman, that she could raise Samuel, certainly she would not ask him to be raised, and thirdly, that our teachers assert that God forgave Saul his sin in his death [644C] , from Samuel’s own speech to Saul. For from this which he says: But tomorrow you and your sons will be with me (ibid.) , they prove that Saul arrived with Samuel in a place of rest.

Peter : Whether it was true or false, I do not wish to discuss any longer. But if it is so, as you assert, what kind of necromantic art could have raised him up if he were in heaven? But if he was not in heaven, he was undoubtedly under the law of the devil, and was resting in hell.

Moses : You have well ensnared me, and well defeated me, and up to this point it has been sufficiently shown how man came into the hand of the devil. It follows, therefore, that you explain why God brought him out of there, since he suffered to fall. [644D]

Peter : Therefore, the human race having been condemned by the counsel of the serpent, and by the sin of our first parent Adam, condemned, I say, and punished with a double death, as we have said, since there were many holy men who had fallen into the snare of the devil through no fault of their own, except that old and as it were already natural sin, the Creator of this human race, moved by pity and mercy, wished to free them from it.

Moses : And since, as you assert, he was moved with pity for them, why did he suffer them to be detained there for so long, namely, until the time of him whom you call Christ?

Peter : He did not do this out of any justice, but solely out of his piety and simple goodness, and simple goodness , as we said at the beginning of our conversation, should have neither measure nor limit.

Moses : And why, as I said above, when He wished to redeem them, He did not do so under this power, but rather preferred His Word to be incarnate and to suffer.

Peter : That he rescued them in this way was certainly the most perfect wisdom, as is found in his other early works. For when once, as you yourself know, he was preparing to lead his people Israel out of Egyptian captivity, and when he wanted to kill the firstborn of the Egyptians with an evil spirit, to keep his own safe, he ordered them to sacrifice a lamb or a kid in each house, and to infect the doors of the houses (Exod. 12) , so that the evil spirit coming would go to the house on the other side [645B] infected with blood. But since he wanted to protect them in this way, could he not have done without this work?

Moses : He certainly could.

Peter : Why, then, did he need this kind of deliverance?

Moses : It is indeed his wisdom to attribute some cause to each thing, by which he wishes to bring them to effect, just as he wished to redeem them from that death by the sacrifice of a lamb or a kid, but we cannot all perceive those causes of things.

Peter : For the mysteries of God are so deep and unsearchable that no one can penetrate them. Why then do you wonder in your search why the Lord sent His Word to become incarnate and to die for the redemption of man? [645C]

Moses : And why did he not redeem them from that sin of Adam by the immolation of any animal, as it is commanded in the law (Lev. 4; Num. 5) , that some beast should be sacrificed for sin?

Peter : Most foolish of all, where could he find so many cattle? For as many men have been since the beginning of the world, and as there will be until its end, so many cattle would have had to be sacrificed. Besides this, that sin which had taken possession of both body and soul could not reasonably be blotted out, except by a sacrifice which had both body and soul.

Moses : Since, then, he wanted it to be redeemed by such a sacrifice, why could not that sacrifice have been made by some prophet or any other holy man, [645D] but rather promised that his Word would take on flesh and undergo death?

Peter : Because that man who died to redeem so great and such a sin, would have been necessary to be free from all sin. For if he did not need to redeem sins by his own death, this could not be found in someone who was only a man. For the nature of the body does not sustain itself from sin, as God testifies in Genesis, and says, “The mind of man is diligently set on evil from his youth” (Gen. 8) . Solomon also says in Ecclesiastes: “There is not a man on earth who does good and does not sin” (Ecclesiastes 7) . Therefore, it was the reason and wisdom of God that the Word should take his human body, [646A] which he would keep free from all contagion and sin, in order that he might redeem himself thus clean and pure from all vice, that general sin, and that he might erase the first sin of all, assumed by him who is the beginning of all things, without taking away the sin committed by him who was made without a father, and without taking away the sin committed by him who was made without a father. Moreover, that God might reasonably condemn on the day of judgment those who, with the death of his Son, had been freed from the snare of the devil, but had afterwards fallen back upon him through their own iniquity.

Moses : When you assert that he whom you call Christ died of his own free will for the redemption of mankind, why do you condemn his murderers, and, since they only fulfilled his will, do you make them guilty of sin? [646B]

Peter : If they had done it with that intention, namely, to fulfill his will, and believed that by his death they would escape from the power of the devil, they would undoubtedly have incurred no sin. But because they denied him, and killed him out of envy, therefore they are guilty of this great crime, and will not escape misery and tribulation in the present world, nor in the world to come, as long as they continue in this wickedness of theirs. But that they were condemned both rightly and wrongly, I will show you by a similar example, and you yourself will judge that it is right.

Moses : When I hear, if it is right, I will judge rightly.

Peter : So a certain man had a ship, and it was his will to burn it, that he might have the nails separately , and make charcoal for himself from the wood. But while he was thinking this, a certain enemy of his came to the ship at night, and, not knowing his will, burned it out of hatred. But when morning came, the aforesaid man found the nails of his ship on one side, and the coal on the other, as he had wished. Likewise another: There was a certain stone house belonging to a certain man, which when he wanted to destroy, in order to make some other building of the stones, it chanced that a certain enemy of his threw it down one day in such a way that not a stone was left upon a stone, and he did this not for the sake of fulfilling his will, which he did not know, but out of hatred. But the aforesaid man, when he came to his house the next day, found what he had thought and wished to do accomplished . But since neither the one who burned the ship nor the one who threw down the house acted to fulfill the will of his enemy, but out of hatred and envy, what will you judge of them?

Moses : I certainly judge them both guilty and to be punished.

Peter : Therefore, they are to be judged by the same reason who killed Christ not for the fulfillment of his will, but out of hatred and the poison of envy.

Moses : They would have been beyond doubt guilty if they had acted in the manner you describe. But they did not act in this way, indeed they killed him with a harsh sentence.

Peter : And what guilt they imputed to him, that they condemned him to death.

Moses : Because he was also a magician, and through the art of magic [647A] he led the children of Israel into error, and besides this he called himself the Son of God.

Peter : It is not surprising that these and other lies were told about him, although he himself came to redeem them. For this is what Hosea prophesied about them: Woe to them, for they have departed from me. They shall be wasted, because they have transgressed against me. And I redeemed them, and they have spoken lies against me (Hosea 7) . Moreover, where could he have learned so much of the art of magic, that by it he turned water into wine (John 2) : fed five thousand men with five loaves (John 6) , healed lepers (Luke 18) , and those with dropsy (Luke 14) , restored the lame to walk, the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak (Matt. 9) , restored sight to the blind, and, what is greatest of all, raised the dead (Mark 7; John 11; Luke 7) , and performed other miracles, all of which are too long to enumerate?

Moses : Our teachers indeed say that he acquired it in Egypt.

Peter : From your words, then, it is proved that there were in Egypt at that time those who themselves would perform the same works.

Moses : It can be.

Peter : Why then were not their works published and heard, as his were? Why should even the wise men of Egypt receive his doctrine and law, if they acknowledged him to be a magician?

Moses : I certainly do not know how to answer you about this. [647C] For I have not heard of them that they ever believed in him, nor how or when they did it?

Peter : Let us leave these matters alone, and let us inquire into his individual works, so that we may inquire whether they were done either by magical art, or by some other physical art, or rather by the power of God.

Moses : You speak well. And I also do not care much to inquire into the lesser things. For if you show of the greater things that they were made by the power of God, I will not doubt of the lesser things.

Peter : You speak wisely. And I, as you say, so I also grant, which is why I first inquire about each one.

Moses : First of all, I want an answer [647D] to be given to me about how the lepers were cleansed (Matt. VIII; Luke XVII) , and about how the blind were enlightened (Luke XVIII) .

Peter : Know that leprosy cannot be cured in any way except by medicine or by the power of God. And if by medicine or by potions internally, it is cleansed externally by anointings. But since man did not see any medicine working from him, but he cured them only by word and in a moment, it is certain that it was done by the power of God.

Moses : Did we not read of Firmino the magician that he cleansed a leper?

Peter : It is certainly false that he cured him; but he himself deceived the eyes of men by his magical art, and caused what was not in reality to be seen. The proof of which is that after some time the patient recovered the same illness, and although outwardly his skin looked clean like others, yet never, as he himself said, did he not feel inwardly the weakness. Moreover, nowhere in all necromancy is it read that a leper is ever truly cured by it. But as for the blind, those who are born blind, physics contradicts the fact that medicine can enlighten them. But the magician Assitha testifies that, however, by necromancy, light is not truly restored to them.

Moses : It may be. But what will you say about the dead, since the same Assitha claims that a man can raise them and speak with them, and in his book he shows the method by which it can be done, and on another occasion in the book of Kings it is read, as we have said, how Samuel was raised by a woman [648B] who was a witch? (1 Kings 28.)

Peter : It is certainly true, because, as you say, Assitha testifies. But between the work of God and that which is done by magical art, in the resuscitation of the dead, there is a great distance. For the dead, raised by some magician, cannot walk beyond the length of their shadow, but when they have come to its end, they fall back to the earth dead, but those who are raised by the power of God, drink and eat, wherever and however much they walk, and, as long as it pleases God, live like other men, like those whom both Elisha and Elijah raised and Christ (1 Kings 17:4; 2 Kings 4:1; Luke 7:1) .

Moses : Since it has been sufficiently shown up to this point that this man accomplished everything by no magical art, but rather by the power of God, [648C] like other prophets, I want you to tell me why he presumes to call himself not a prophet, but the Son of God.

Peter : He did so because he was truly the Son of God. As we have shown above by many authorities, when we were speaking of him as God and man (John 1) , we need not prove it further. But if you wish, let us enter into a narrow discussion from there, and I will show you by reason that when he called himself the Son of God (John 11) , he spoke the truth.

Moses : I agree.

Peter : Can he then who works by the power of God do anything without the will of God Himself? [648D]

Moses : It seems to me necessary that he who does something by the power of God, in no way does it except by the will of the same God.

Peter : And he who by the power of God, and works his will, does it not follow that he is a friend of God, and his faithful servant?

Moses : Of course it follows. For in reading this we find that the holy prophets, who once performed miracles, were beloved of God and faithful to Him, like Moses, Elijah, and Elisha, and many others who performed many miracles in their lives (Exod. 2:3; 1 Kings 17 and 18; Ecclesiastes 48; 2 Kings 2:4, 5, 6) .

Peter : And he who is a friend of God and faithful to Him must not say anything false about God or on God’s part .

Moses : It is true.

Peter : Since, therefore, Christ, as has been proved above, both worked miracles by the power and will of God, and from this it follows that he was His friend and faithful servant, it is undoubtedly concluded that He never spoke anything falsely about God or on His part. Which being so, He therefore truly called Himself the Son of God (John 10) .

Moses : The reason is what you said. But I marvel with great astonishment that, although at that time there were many men, endowed with great understanding and wisdom, they did not at all perceive that he was such. But if they acknowledged it, why did they reject the faith of his teachers [649B] and, by crucifying him, knowingly incur the damnation of their souls?

Peter : Indeed, as we have said before, they did this out of envy, because they feared to lose their dignity and fame through him (John 11) . And we find something similar to this happening in the time of Jeroboam, king of Israel. For when Solomon died, his kingdom was divided into two, as the Scripture testifies, and his son Rehoboam obtained one part, and his servant Jeroboam the other. But Jeroboam, taking counsel with his nobles, made two golden calves which the people worshipped, lest, if he went up often to Jerusalem to pray and sacrifice, as was the custom, he should perhaps remain there some time, and cling to Boboam, and thus Jeroboam should lose his dignity , as the same Scripture teaches, saying: And Jeroboam said in his heart: Now the kingdom shall return to the house of David, if this people go up to offer sacrifices in the house of the Lord in Jerusalem, and the heart of this people shall turn to Rehoboam king of Judah their lord, and they shall kill me and return to him. And having thought of a plan, he made two golden calves, and said to them: Go no more up to Jerusalem. Behold your gods, O Israel, which brought you up out of the land of Egypt (3 Kings XII) . But since both Jeroboam himself and his princes were endowed with great wisdom, both by Solomon who had preceded him, who, according to the testimony of Scripture, was the wisest of all those who preceded him and those who followed him (3 Kings IV) , and by the great peace that existed in Solomon’s time , which affords great opportunity for learning wisdom, it is evident that, as we have said, they did this through envy and fear of admitting their kingdom. You should not be surprised, therefore, if the doctors of the law and the scribes killed Christ with the poison of envy, since they feared that they would lose their glory and dignity through him.

Moses : What you say is likely. Nevertheless, I still wonder greatly, although I have inquired about the same thing elsewhere, I wonder, I say, since God, as you say, has made him powerful, why he did not immediately vindicate himself.

Peter : This indeed he did out of his great goodness and mercy. And this we perceive from his words [650A] , while he hung on the cross, saying: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do (Luke 23:11) . By which it is shown that he loved them very much, although they worked against him unjustly, as the prophet Zechariah testifies: And it shall be said to him , he saith : What are these plagues, in the midst of thy hands? And he shall say: With these have I been smitten in the house of them whom I loved (Zech. 13:11) . But, O Moses, if it pleases God, the time will yet come when the grandchildren of their fathers will recognize the wickedness, and will mourn and grieve for their sins, and will turn to the Lord and return, as the prophet Zechariah says: And I will pour out on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and supplications, and they will look upon me whom they have pierced, and will mourn for him with mourning [650B] as for an only son, and will grieve over him, as is wont to grieve for the death of a firstborn (Zech. 12) . And may Almighty God grant you, I beseech you, that you may be one of those who will be converted. Amen.

Title XI.

On the resurrection and ascension Christ into heaven

Moses : So far it has been sufficiently shown about that man who voluntarily accepted death for the human race in order to redeem it. But now I want to speak to you about him who, as you said in your exposition of your faith, rose again on the third day. And it could well be, since the fullness of the Godhead, as you say, dwelt in him (Col. 2) and restored the rest of the dead to life, that he raised himself up again. But in this way I ask you whether, after he rose again, he was God and man [650C] as he was before, or not?

Peter : I believe without a doubt that it was so. For when his soul, dissolved from his body, descended to hell to rescue the good from there, his divinity itself never departed from it. Hence, even when he returned to his body, he always remained with it, wherefore both then and now and forever he will be both man and God.

Moses : I think it is enough that you believe so, but there remains one thing about which I want you to answer me. For since He took on flesh for no other reason than to rescue the children of Adam from the yoke of the devil, after, as you say, He had accomplished that as He wished, why did He again hinder Himself with the gravity of the body?

Peter : The body of Christ was indeed subtle, and most pure from all sin (Isa. LIII; 1 Pet. II) . [650D] For he did not contract any sin either from his first parent Adam or from himself, and since he was such, did he have to die, since Adam also died only because of sin, and moreover since the deity dwelt in him?

Moses : No.

Peter : Since, then, He did not accept death for any fault which He had admitted, but rather only for the sake of saving His own, did He not deserve to be resurrected?

Moses : The order of reason indeed demands it this way. But why did he hasten to be raised up so much, and not wait until the good who have died, others shall rise again at the end of the world (1 Cor. 15; Matt. 25) ?

Peter : For others who died committed many sins in this world [651A] , and even for the sin of Adam they received death, that is, the penalty of sin, and therefore until it pleases God they cannot be raised, but He, as we have said, had neither Adam’s nor any other sin, but of His own free will, and for our redemption, He died on one day, and on another He descended to hell, that He might bring the good out of there. Therefore, since He had already accomplished all for which He came, and there was no more, so to speak, that He was to do, He was justly resurrected on the third day. Moreover, Enoch and Elijah, because they were holy men and worthy, as we and you believe, are still alive (Gen. V; 2 Kings 2) , and although they were to die at the end of the world, yet they will be resurrected immediately because of their holiness. But since this is so, should not the body of Christ, which was the holiest [651B] of all and purest from sin, be resurrected immediately as He wished? Therefore it was also necessary for him to be raised, so that just as by his death, descending into hell, he freed those who had died by the right of the devil, so by his resurrection he would free those who would come from the hand of the same devil, because when they hear that he has risen, they believe, and thus they come out from his yoke.

Moses : The reason is what you say. But could you show by any authority of the prophets that he should be raised?

Peter : I can certainly. For David says in the Psalm: You will add days to the days of the king, his years to the day of generation and generation (Ps. 60) . [651C] Of what king could this prophecy be said if not of Christ? For by the days of the king, the Prophet wished to note the definite time during which Christ lived in the world before his passion; but by the days which he said were to be added to the days of the king, which he also put without a definite time, he understood the time after his resurrection, which he also indicated would eventually fall, when he added, his years to the day of generation and generation . In Isaiah also we read: Now will I arise, says the Lord, now will I be exalted, now will I be lifted up (Isa. 33) . And here the Lord wished three things to be understood. What he also said: Now I will rise , he said of the resurrection of his body, of his death, but what follows: Now I will be exalted , he brought in of his ascension into heaven, but the third, which is: Now I will be lifted up , he added of the exaltation and glory of those who believe in him.

Moses : Since you have made mention of the ascension, and I have long since intended to inquire into this matter, now, if you please, I demand an answer to me about it, how you believe it to have taken place. For reason forbids a heavy thing to ascend or be supported on a light thing.

Peter : My faith is certainly that he ascended into heaven, I believe also because the power of his omnipotence is so great that in whatever way it was done, it was possible for it to be as he pleased. But if I were dealing with someone who believed, I would certainly not answer differently. But because you are an unbeliever, and understand nothing but something gross, and what can be touched as if, therefore I will answer you somewhat [652A] grosser, and because I desire that through this you will believe something good.

Moses : I demand that you do so.

Peter : Do you know, then, that the goose and the hen, the sparrow and the lark, are all made of the four elements, and have wings?

Moses : Of course I know.

Peter : Tell me, then, why do the sparrow and the lark soar so high in flight, while the goose and the hen cannot do the same?

Moses : Because both the former are small in body, and therefore lighter, and the latter are larger, and therefore heavier.

Peter : If lightness comes from quantity, why is the vulture or eagle greater than all these, since it ascends higher than all by flying?

Moses : Because the body is composed more subtly of elements.

Peter : And although it is light and subtle, what is it that makes that body descend upward?

Moses : Without a doubt, the spirit, without which not only could not fly, but could not move at all.

Peter : Since, then, the body of Christ after the resurrection was most light and most subtle, since in death it lost all weight and thickness, the proof of which is that it no longer needed food or drink; since, I say, it was such, and had with it a spirit, that is, a soul, and moreover a divinity, which, as Moses testifies, dominates and surpasses all the spirits of the flesh , why could it not ascend into heaven when it pleased? Likewise, about Elijah, whose body did not assume any subtlety through death, and yet ascended on high before his disciple Elisha, how do you believe it was done rationally and according to physics?

Moses and Elijah indeed fasted much and ate little, whence his body acquired such lightness and subtlety that it was able to ascend even into the air, where even the angels received him, and carried him whithersoever it pleased God (2 Kings 2:4) .

Peter : Since then the body of Christ was made subtle both by death, and by the fact that after the resurrection he neither ate nor drank by any necessity, [652D] and that he had in himself the fullness of the divinity, which is above the angels, why, as we have said, could he not ascend into heaven? But there is also a reason why he ascended. For if the place where Moses stood when the Lord appeared to him in the bush for one hour, the Lord calls holy because of its proximity, and because of its holiness commands Moses to take off his shoes, saying: Take off your shoes from your feet; for the place where you stand is holy ground (Exod. iii.) , should the body of Christ, in which the fullness of the divinity dwelt not momentarily, but eternally, have remained in the filth of this world after the resurrection? Nay, with just reason, as we have said, he deserted it and ascended upward into heaven.

Moses : You have indeed proved this with clear reason, and [653A] you have introduced similar good things. But can any authority be found in the prophets about his ascension?

Peter : It certainly can. For in Genesis we read that the Lord spoke to Abraham about this, although secretly. For it is written: And he brought him outside, and said to him: Look up to heaven and count the stars, if you are able to number them. And he said: So shall your seed be. And Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness (Gen. 15) . But by day, O Moses, what is it that he says, he brought him outside? For why did he do this? Did Abraham not know within as without, that he could not number the stars? Or would God, if he had willed within him as without, not be able to say what he said? Likewise, when he says, so shall your seed be , why did he not say, I will make your seed as the stars of heaven, if anyone can number the stars of heaven, and your seed shall be numbered, just as he says elsewhere: I will make your seed as the sand of the sea, if anyone can number the sand of the sea, and your seed shall be numbered?

Moses : In this I certainly know nothing else, except that it pleased God to say so.

Peter : For I want you to understand the whole discourse, and to know that the Scripture did not put any word in vain. Therefore, what is written, he brought it out , was done by the Lord for two reasons. One, indeed, to show him the place of heaven, which is designated by this, which is, look at the heaven (Gen. V) . The other, however, as the multitude of stars, and this is what he says, count the stars, if you are able to number them . As for [653C] which follows: so shall your seed be , in Hebrew there is indeed such a word which in Latin is rendered both here and thus , namely, because it signifies both place and likeness. For if he wanted to put such a word, which meant only place , he would certainly have said הבה , henna : but if he wanted to put such a word which meant only so , he would have put כה , cacha . Therefore, by this that he put כה , there , he wanted to indicate both the place in which Abraham’s seed was to be, namely Christ after his ascension, and the multitude of his seed.

Moses : I know that in Hebrew, Latin it is rendered thus , but I think it nowhere signifies a place .

Peter : He certainly does: For in Exodus it is read of Moses that he saw an Egyptian man striking [653D] one of his Hebrew brothers. And when he had looked this way and that, and saw no one present, he hid the struck Egyptian in the sand (Exod. 2) . For where here and there is placed, in Hebrew you will indeed find co and co . But to confirm this sentence it follows in the same passage: Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness (Gen. 15) . For why did Abraham believe God in this promise more than in the other promises which were made to him by God?

Moses : He truly believed in all things, who was never unbelieving.

Peter : And why does not Scripture say in each of the promises that he believed God , as here; or since he was always credulous , why, as in others, was he silent about this, so was he not silent here also?

Moses : I don’t know, but he says so.

Peter : Did we not say above that Scripture did not use any word rashly?

Moses : Tell me, then, why he said this.

Peter : Indeed, because that promise of his seed ascending to heaven was contrary to custom and incredible, it is added to show its holiness: Abraham believed God . But since, although it would not be surprising if he doubted, yet he did not doubt, but believed, therefore it follows, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness . But David also speaks in a psalm of the ascension of Christ, when he relates what is promised by the Lord about his seed: His seed , he says, shall continue for ever, and his throne as the sun before me, and as the perfect moon for ever, and a faithful witness in heaven always (Ps. 88) . But was this promise made for the sake of any of the seed of David besides Christ, or for Christ alone?

Moses : Since I gain nothing from contradicting him, I do not deny that it was made for the sake of Christ. For the argument is that the promise made to David by the Lord is always accompanied by a condition concerning his seed other than Christ, as we find in the third book of Kings, that David, when the days of his death were now approaching, chastising Solomon his son, says to him: Be strong and be a man , etc., and immediately he added the reason why he chastised him, saying: If your sons [654C] keep my way, and walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail you a man on the throne of Israel (3 Kings 2) . But that promise which was made to him concerning Christ, even if his children sinned, they would certainly be punished, but it is nevertheless promised to be fulfilled, as is read in the same Psalm: ” But if his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments, if they profane my justices, and keep not my commandments, I will visit their iniquity with the rod, and their sins with stripes: but my mercy will I not take away from him, neither will I take away the words of my lips” (Ps. 888) .

Peter : You have said well, and have shown yourself to understand the Scriptures well, and you have put forward no contrary. [654D] But how will Christ remain for ever , unless he be God, and his throne be like the sun or the moon in the sight of the Lord, and he himself a faithful witness in heaven always, unless he be in heaven? Therefore the Psalmist has indicated that Christ would ascend into heaven. But this no one, as we believe, could do, unless he were both God and man.

Moses : It seems to me that the order of speech demands this.

Peter : Likewise David elsewhere in the same psalm says: Arise, my glory, arise, psaltery and harp, I will arise early. Be exalted above the heavens, O God, and above all the earth, thy glory (Ps. LVI) . Here David insinuates both the resurrection of Christ, and the ascension , and some other things. For when he says: Arise, my glory , he designates the resurrection of Christ. As if he were saying: Christ, who is my glory, will rise from death. But that which is: Arise, psaltery and harp , he introduced because of the joy and gladness that were to come from the resurrection of Christ, which are well designated by the psaltery and harp, since in times of prosperity and joy such instruments are played. As if he were saying: When Christ rises, all joy and gladness will rise with him. But by the third which is: I will arise early , where it is to be supplemented by early , it is noted that David himself was to be rescued from the darkness of hell by the resurrection of Christ. For thus here by dawn we understand light, just as in many places by the name which is evening we are accustomed to understand darkness and night. As if he were saying openly: [655B] When Christ rises, I too will rise from darkness with him in glory and great light. But the fourth thing that he said: Be exalted above the heavens, O God, and above all the earth, your glory , he added about the exaltation and ascension of Christ into heaven, from which ascension glory was to come to him throughout the whole world. As if he were saying: You will be exalted above the heavens and ascend, and from there glory will be heaped up for you throughout the whole earth. But what he said, God , we necessarily understand about Christ, who was both man and God. For pure God, since he is neither moved from place to place, undoubtedly neither descends, nor ascends, nor is exalted.

Moses : It is enough, I admit, that you have said about the ascension. But in the exposition of your faith you have touched on one thing still, [655C] namely, that he will come to judge the living and the dead on the day of judgment. For which matter I neither set forth an argument nor a reason. For if, as you believe, he is both God and man, I sufficiently grant that he is also the judge of the world. But have you any authority from Scripture on that?

Peter : Of course I have. For thus we read in the book of Daniel: I beheld till thrones were cast, and the Ancient of Days sat (Dan. VII) . And afterwards in the same: The judgment was set, and the books were opened . Then also in the same vision: I beheld then , he says, in a vision of the night, and behold with the clouds of heaven one like the Son of man came, and came even to the Ancient of Days, and they presented him before him, and gave him power, and honor, and a kingdom: and all peoples , [655D] tribes, and languages ​​shall serve him. His power is an everlasting power, which shall not be taken away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed (ibid.) . For the Ancient of Days who sat is God the Father. But by this which he said: The judgment was set, and the books were opened , is designated the judgment, which shall come at the end of the world, in which the merits of each one shall be discussed as if written in books (Matt. XXV) . But he who came with the clouds of heaven is Christ, who is rightly called not the Son of man absolutely, but as the Son of man , because he was not born of a carnal father and mother, but rather of a virgin and God the Father. But by this, that the Ancient of Days, having prepared the judgment, and the books being opened, gave him power, and honor, and a kingdom , and promised him the service of all peoples, tribes, and tongues, [656A] it is certainly clear that the judgment of all is granted to him at the consummation of the world. By this also, that his eternal power which shall not be taken away, and his kingdom which shall not be destroyed , which pertain only to the divine kingdom, and by that which precedes, that he came as the Son of man , it is undoubtedly indicated that he to whom such judgment and kingdom was given is Christ, who, as we have said, was to be both God and man. But may the Lord grant to you, my friend, that in that judgment of those who are to be placed on the right hand (ibid.) , you may be one. Amen.

Title XII.

What the law of Christians has read It is not contrary to Moses.

Moses : Up to this point, each part of your cruelty has been sufficiently discussed, but at the beginning of the discussion you said one thing more, namely, that at the hour of your baptism you believed the apostles. I demand an answer to you about this credulity, namely, whether you believe that they were only good and holy men, or whether what they preached was true, and that they themselves believed that you also believed.

Peter : I certainly believe both, that they were saints, and that they preached the truth in all things, and that what they preached, I do according to my ability.

Moses : You have now fallen into a snare from which you will not be able to escape. For when I had at first asked Moses about the law, if you would observe it as it was given by him, which you seemed to me to have transgressed, you who [656C] gave me answered that you would fulfill it, observe it truly, and walk with a straight step along its most upright paths. He also whom you call Christ, preserved it in all things, as he himself testifies when he says: For I came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it (Matt. 5) . But the apostles whom you claim to have believed, dissolved it, and commanded other things contrary to its precepts (Gal. 4) . Wherefore, when you say that of them, you seem to believe one thing and its opposite.

Peter : The apostles were indeed true disciples of Christ, and whatever they preached they certainly did through Christ, and they did not break the law of Moses, but fulfilled it.

Moses : And how can we know that they preached it through [656D] Christ, since it is known that they did not preach it until after his death?

Peter : But how could we doubt from this, when we know that they preached nothing else than Christ and his precepts? For that they preached both him and his precepts, the proof is that they, in order to spread his faith, traveled barefoot to diverse and distant lands, thirst, hunger, nakedness, cold and heat at the same time, distress and labor, scourges and killing almost all endured for his confession. For how could they have endured these things for him, and yet be contrary to or disobedient to his precepts?

Moses : If, as you say, the apostles did not disagree with Christ , nor did Christ disagree in any way with the law of Moses, why then were the apostles opposed to Moses?

Peter : And in what will the opposites be found?

Moses : In all things.

Peter : You have said too much. For they themselves preached fasting, almsgiving and mercy, they commanded that God be loved above all things and their neighbor as themselves, murders, fornications, thefts, false witness, envy, and other vices which reason abhors and Moses forbids, they themselves also forbade (Eph. 5; Rom. 6) . How then do you say that they were contrary to Moses in all things?

Moses : If they agreed with Moses in the above, why did they disagree with him in some other matters?

Peter : In which? [657B]

Moses : The first is that circumcision, which God commanded both to Abraham and Moses, and Christ also, whom you say was circumcised, the apostles put aside, nay, they even forbade it to be done (Gal. 5) .

Peter : First of all, we should consider why and for what benefit this circumcision was commanded, and then we will better recognize whether what the apostles did was just or unjust.

Moses : I agree.

Peter : Tell me, then, what benefit do you believe that circumcision could bring, or why was it commanded to be done on the eighth day? (Gen. XVII; Lev. XII.)

Moses : I know of no reason for the eighth day except the pleasure of God. But it brought benefit, [657C] because it was an opportunity for salvation.

Peter : From your words, then, it is clear that anyone who is circumcised on any day will be saved, and so it is commanded to be done on the eighth day in vain and without profit. But it is also pleasing to seek something else. Does that circumcision need anything else for salvation, or is it by itself capable of conferring salvation?

Moses : Certainly he needs something else, because for perfect salvation, besides circumcision, the law of Moses must be fulfilled, and you can hear the way in which it is done, if you please. For if anyone is both circumcised and faithfully keeps the whole law, he will undoubtedly be saved. But if he is circumcised and presumes not to observe the law in some respects, he will indeed suffer punishments for his transgression, but from that he will nevertheless pass on to salvation. But if he keeps the whole law, but is not circumcised, he will not be able to be saved by any punishments that he may suffer .

Peter : Whence comes this kind of credulity to you, when God never promised it to Abraham or Moses, nor did any prophet ever say this?

Moses : For we understand this from the words which the Lord says to Abraham: “The male ,” he says, ” whoever is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his race” (Gen. 17) . For by this it is implied that he who is circumcised will not perish, but rather will be saved.

Peter : According to this authority of yours , [658A] he who does not fast on the seventeenth day of the month, even though he is circumcised, will still have no salvation. For thus it is written in Leviticus: Every soul that is not afflicted on this day shall perish from his people (Lev. 23) . But if he perishes on this account, circumcision will undoubtedly be of no avail.

Moses : This certainly seems to be the reason.

Peter : What then do you say about Adam, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah and his son Shem, and many others whom we believe were not circumcised at all, and yet were saved?

Moses : For indeed, before circumcision was prescribed, they existed, and therefore they could be saved without it.

Peter : And what will you say about Job and his companions, who [658B] came into existence after the commandment of circumcision, and although uncircumcised, were nevertheless saved?

Moses : For they were not of that nation to which the commandment of circumcision had been given.

Peter : What, then, saved all those mentioned above?

Moses : I really don’t know, but I think it was because of their good faith and the sacrifices they used.

Peter : What then do you say about Ishmael, to whom circumcision was commanded, not the law, and whose descendants are circumcised to this day? For are they saved by that circumcision? But you will say that yes, then circumcision alone confers salvation, without the fulfillment of the law of Moses. But if you say no, you will contradict yourself, since you said above that circumcision is the cause of salvation. [658C]

Moses : The reason is what you say.

Peter : What will you also judge about Jewish women who cannot be circumcised, and yet are believed to be saved?

Moses : For this reason indeed they are saved, because they are born of circumcised men.

Peter : What then of Sarah and Rebecca, Rachel and Leah, and Moses’ wife Zipporah, who was a Midianite, and Ruth, all of whom, as we believe, were saved, and yet were not born of the Jews? For if they were not to be saved, certainly their husbands, who were both saints and prophets, would not have had them as wives, or beget sons by them.

Moses : I do not know how to give you an answer about this , for it has never been shown to me. But you, if you know, explain to me the advantages of circumcision.

Peter : Circumcision was certainly given for this reason, that the nation of the Lord might be distinguished and recognized from other nations. For the greater discernment of which nation, another commandment was also given, namely, that no one should take a wife from another tribe (Num. 36) . And this whole commandment was given, because from the seed of Abraham and the law of Moses, and the tribe of Judah, Christ was to come, namely, that when he came, it might be recognized that he was he, and that no one might arise from another nation who would claim to be Christ, and thus send the world into error. And that circumcision was commanded for the discernment of the nation, and not, as you said, for salvation, we have two arguments indeed. One thing indeed which was commanded [659A] to be done on the eighth day, and not before, because neither before the eighth day is the child separated from its mother, nor is there any fear that it may mix with others, but on the eighth day, when the woman is commanded to be cleansed and washed from that pollution, before she does this, the child is circumcised, lest the mother be removed and changed, or another be mixed with (Lev. 12) . But another thing is that during the forty years in which the children of Israel dwelt in the wilderness, all who were born there were not circumcised, but from the time they came to the inhabited land, lest they mix with other nations, they were immediately commanded by the Lord through Joshua to be circumcised, as those who read the book of Joshua himself find (Josh. 5) . But as for what you said about circumcision being the cause of salvation, certainly circumcision was not the cause of that thing only , but also good faith, sacrifices and right works, both after the circumcision was given and before, as is clear in Adam, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah and Shem, Job and his companions and Jewish women, who were all saved without circumcision by right faith and good works. Moreover, none of the aforementioned kinds of salvation conferred salvation, except only to those who, having discernment, believed in the coming of Christ, and did not believe that they could be saved except through him. But when Christ, the savior whom they were waiting for, came, that he might fulfill the law of Moses, he desired to be circumcised, and that by this also it might be made clear that he should come from the seed of Abraham, and the law of Moses, and the tribe of Judah, as we have said before. Therefore, having fulfilled all for which circumcision was given , no one any longer needed circumcision, because he did not need any distinction of race (Col. 3) . For whoever, whatever race or language he may be, who submits himself to the law of Christ, and wishes only to be faithful, is equal to the rest of the Christians. Moreover, after baptism came, since it is the general salvation of men and women, circumcision was no longer necessary for salvation. Since, therefore, it has been shown in every way that circumcision was not necessary after the coming of Christ, you can clearly recognize why the apostles did not command it to be done at all.

Moses : And if they did not command it, why did they also forbid it to be done?

Peter : They certainly did this so that men would not think that baptism and circumcision confer salvation, or that circumcision confers salvation together with baptism itself, and so fall into error, like the Nestorians and Jacobites, who think that no man can be saved except by both, and like you yourselves, whoever today of external descent wishes to convert to your law, if he is a man, he must first be circumcised, and afterwards you command him to be baptized, but if he is a woman, only to be baptized.

Moses : From these words of yours it is inferred that we did not practice baptism until after the coming of Christ, as if we had acquired it from Christ himself.

Peter : If not from him, from whom then did you learn it? [660A]

Moses : From Moses.

Peter : It is false. And from this we have two arguments, one, that when the Lord gave Moses a command concerning strangers, saying: If any of the strangers will wish to pass into your colony, and keep the Passover of the Lord, let all his males first be circumcised, and then he shall celebrate it properly, and he shall be as a native of the land (Exod. 12) . Certainly, if baptism were then necessary, he would have commanded it as well as circumcision, and since neither here nor especially, if what you say were true, should it be, nor anywhere else did Moses make mention of it, you can in no way approve that you added it from him. But another argument is, that your teachers, those indeed who were before Christ, never spoke anything about that baptism [660B] , by which they show that you did not receive it from Moses. But those who were after the coming of Christ, learned baptism from him and thus mixing it with circumcision, led the people into error.

Moses : You have answered what pleases you about circumcision. But what will you say now about the Sabbath day, which the Lord commanded to be observed in many places through Moses, and by Himself speaking to the children of Israel from Mount Sinai, and the commandment for the observance of which was written on the tables of stone thus: Remember , says God, to keep the Sabbath day holy? (Exod. 20; Deut. 5) And He gives the reason in the following, saying: For in six days God made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and sanctified it (ibid.) , and moreover commanded that he who did not observe it should be stoned (Num. 15) . But the apostles rejected it, and commanded that another day be observed.

Peter : Indeed, the Lord commanded that day to be observed, in memory of the beginning of the world, as you said, and made it a sign of some other thing that was to come.

Moses : And what was that thing that was to come?

Peter : The coming of Christ, who completed all his works which he performed while alive in the world, on the sixth day, that is, Friday, when he accepted death for us. But on the seventh day, that is, Saturday, he rested, [660D] and made all who had died believing in him before his death to rest with him from the pains of hell. But when that was completed, the observance of which was a sign of the Sabbath, it was no longer necessary to observe it.

Moses : According to your words, if the observance of the Sabbath was a sign of the thing you speak of, it should have been observed much more, both for the memory of the beginning of the world, and for the rest of the saints from the pains of hell.

Peter : It is not, of course, as you think. For your parents, who lived before the coming of Christ, observed the Sabbath day, both in memory, as has been said, of the beginning of the world, and because they believed that on that day through Christ they should rest from the pains of hell. But after the resurrection of Christ, which was the cause of Christian credulity, and credulity the cause of salvation, although all salvation came from the death of Christ, yet without credulity it contributed nothing useful; after the resurrection, I say, it was no longer necessary for all who believed in him to observe the Sabbath, but rather the Lord’s day, namely the day of the resurrection, which existed for the sake of their salvation.

Moses : And why did they not observe both Sabbaths, namely, in memory of the origin of the world, and the other day in memory of their salvation?

Peter : What we have said is that the Sabbath is observed in memory of the origin of the world [661B] , was certainly observed because of the creation of things, which was then complete, as it is written: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested from all his work which he had made (Gen. 1) . But because that same day of damnation of souls first existed, and this indeed through Adam, who sinned in the evening hour of the preceding day, namely the twelfth, and therefore fell from glory into damnation, after the salvation of souls came through the resurrection of Christ, the day of damnation should no longer be celebrated, nay, that which was the beginning of salvation. And this I can show you by an example, if you please. For a certain king built a certain city, in which he founded precious buildings, planted shrubs and vineyards all around, [661C] and through it he led streams of water here and there, and made it fertile and overflowing with all kinds of delights, against which the king of a certain nation began to wage war, so that whenever anyone went out of it, that enemy was ready, and would lie in wait for him, and would seize him, and cast him into a dark prison. Now that king who had founded the city promised its inhabitants that a time would come when he would free them from that enemy. But he exacted no other tribute or remuneration from them, except that they should observe that most celebrated day on which the city had been completed, and also because on that same day he was going to free them from the aforesaid enemy, who had celebrated it for a long time, as the king had commanded them. But after some time had passed, he had compassion and pity for them , and he decided to free them from that captivity in person, so he sent his son. Who, having defeated the enemy, released the captives from his hand. Therefore , having been freed from the yoke of the enemy, the aforementioned king ordered the city in such a way that it no longer had to fear the captivity of the enemy. But tell me, O Moses, which day should have been celebrated more, either that on which the city was destroyed, but the people fell into the hands of the enemy, or that on which it was so ordered that it no longer feared being captured by that enemy?

Moses : The day, without a doubt, on which such a thing was ordained.

Peter : For the same reason we ought to celebrate the Lord’s Day [662A] , because of the resurrection of Christ, which, as we have said, was both the cause of credulity and the chief cause of salvation, because all who died before the death of Christ believing in him were certainly saved when he died, but first they were subjected to the darkness of hell. But those who believed after the resurrection are saved by his death, and yet they did not know Tartarus. This is the reason, therefore, why the apostles commanded it to be observed above all, and not the Sabbath, although our Lord Christ observed it, but this by no means except to fulfill the law of Moses, and because the day of the resurrection had not yet come, which he was to observe.

Moses : And what will you say about the festival of the Passover, which the Lord commanded to be observed, and in it to sacrifice a lamb, and to eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs (Exod. 12) , which the apostles abandoned altogether, and commanded another festival, and in a different order, since Christ (whom you say), while he lived, never wished to celebrate that which the apostles commanded?

Peter : First of all, O Moses, we must diligently examine the rites and the reasons for the rites by which the Passover was commanded to be celebrated in Egypt, and why it was later commanded a second time in the wilderness (Lev. 23; Num. 18) . When we have done this, we will certainly see whether we should celebrate the festival of the Passover after the death of Christ or not.

Moses : I agree.

Peter : These are his rites and religions. [662C] On the tenth day of the month it was commanded to take a lamb or kid, and to keep it until the fourteenth day. Which also was commanded to be male and young, and without any weakness, and that it should be immolated by the whole multitude of the children of Israel on the fourteenth day between two evenings, and of its blood to be put on both doorposts and on the thresholds of the houses, and this only in those houses in which it was to be eaten, moreover its flesh was not eaten raw or boiled in water, but only roasted over the fire, it was also commanded to be cooked whole and whole with the head and feet and intestines over the fire, and to be eaten at night and in haste, and its bone should not be broken, and thus it was to be eaten with unleavened bread and bitter herbs (Exod. XII)

Moses : Indeed, it is as you said. [662D]

Peter : Tell me, then, for what reasons these rites were prescribed.

Moses : I do not know, but the Lord willed it to be so. But concerning the blood, I know that it was commanded to be placed on both the doorposts of houses, and on the lintels, so that the evil angel, coming, might pass over the house stained with blood.

Peter : Have I not often told you above that no word has ever come out of the mouth of the Lord in vain?

Moses : Tell me, then. Why were those rites commanded to be observed?

Peter : That lamb of Egypt, and its rites, were the figure and likeness of the Lamb of God, who was to be slain, that is, Christ. For just as by that lamb the faithful of the Lord were saved from the hand of the angel who was killing bodies, so also by Christ those who believed in him were to be redeemed from the devil who was damning souls, and that Lamb was as it were announcing him who was to come after him.

Moses : You have indeed answered what pleases you about the lamb, but how can you apply the aforementioned rites of the lamb to Christ, whom you call the Lamb of God?

Peter : For, as that lamb was commanded to be taken on the tenth day of the month, and to be preserved until the fourteenth day (Exod. XII) , so also on the tenth day of the month, namely the day of the moon, your teachers received counsel about observing Christ (John XI) . Indeed , on the day preceding Sunday, in Jerusalem, so that the Passover might be celebrated there, Christ came, whom the whole people received with joy and great pomp and honor, whence the envy and malevolence of the teachers increased the more, and they began to counsel one with another about observing and killing him on the morrow (Matt. XXI; John XII; Mark XI; Luke XIX) . But that counsel was covered and concealed until the fourteenth day. And as that lamb was commanded to be male, and young, and without any infirmity, so Christ was both male, and young, and without any infirmity, that is, without sin (1 Peter II) . But that the victim was commanded to be taken from a sheep or a goat, and not from a cow, although the cow is one of those animals of which sacrifice was commanded in the law, for this reason it happened that a sheep or a goat when captured [663C] does not resist as a cow does. And it was also a sign that Christ, when captured, did not resist, nor did he defend himself as best he could. But that he was commanded to be immolated by the whole multitude of the children of Israel, since it was commanded about one in particular, although not all of them immolated one, but each one through his own houses and families, indicated that the whole multitude of the Jews killed Christ. For although not all were present, yet all gave their assent. Because on the fourteenth day, and between the two evenings, it is necessary to see which two evenings of the day are. And one is indeed when the sun begins to descend from the midpoint of the sky, and the other when it sets completely before nightfall. And Christ both on the fourteenth day and between the two evenings of the same day, that is, at the ninth hour, as you yourselves believe, expires [663D] his life. But by the two evenings, two of your captivity can be understood, namely, that of Babylon and that of Titus. And Christ died between the two evenings, because both after the Babylonian and before the captivity of Titus. For since the blood of the lamb was commanded to be placed on both doorposts and on the thresholds of houses as a sign, namely of the cross, it designated the blood of Christ which was shed on the cross. And just as the blood of that lamb, as we have said, preserved the Lord’s faithful from the death of the body, so also the blood of Jesus Christ redeemed his faithful from the destruction of the soul (Rev. 1) . Just as that blood also preserved no house except those in which it was eaten, whence it was commanded to be placed only in those, so also the blood of Christ which was shed on [664A]The blood shed on the cross saves no one except in whom the Lamb of God is eaten, namely, he who eats the same body of Christ. Furthermore, just as the lamb was commanded to be eaten at night, so Christ was taken at night, so that he could not be freed or defended by the people. Just as he was neither raw nor boiled in water, but roasted in fire, so Christ was condemned neither without judgment, nor yet with a just judgment, but unjustly, just as the flesh roasted in fire was not at all raw, nor well cooked. But for the same reason it was commanded to be eaten hastily and with unleavened bread. For just as unleavened bread is not expected to become dough until it is fermented, but rather to be hastily, so in Christ they did not expect any rectitude of judgment, but rather was condemned hastily. By the bitter herbs with which the lamb was commanded to be eaten, is designated that from that unjust condemnation comes calamity and bitterness. But the fact that he was commanded to be cooked whole with his head, feet, and intestines, and that his bones were not broken after eating, suggests that neither was any member of Christ cut off during the killing, but rather he was hung with all his members, nor did any of his bones rot after the killing, or undergo any other kind of decomposition, but rather he rose again whole and whole. You see, then, that as was foretold, that lamb of Egypt, and its rites, were the figure and likeness of the lamb of God, that is, of Christ. But if we have omitted any rite that has not been explained, if you investigate it attentively, you will be able to apply it to Christ in the same way. [664C]

Moses : Since, Peter, you have explained the Phase of Egypt as you pleased, I would like you to tell me, if you please, why it was commanded to be done a second time in the wilderness (Lev. XXIII; Num. XXVIII) .

Peter : It was done for no reason or benefit, except for the memory of the Egyptian Passover, and to announce that on which Christ the Lamb of God was to be sacrificed. But Christ also always celebrated that Passover, as long as he lived, both to fulfill the law of Moses (Matt. 5) , and because those rites were not yet complete. But after all was completed by his death, it is no longer necessary to celebrate that Passover, but rather that Passover which was ordained for us by our apostles. For it is right that we exchange the day [664D] of the salvation of souls, which is more worthy of worship, for the day of the salvation of bodies. For as the greater joy comes, the less departs, and as the sun rises, the brightness of the stars flees. But we must also abandon the memory of the former in favor of the memory of the latter, as the Lord promised through the prophet Jeremiah: “Behold, the days are coming,” he says, “says the Lord, “when it will no longer be said, ‘The Lord lives, who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ but, ‘The Lord lives, who brought up and led the children of Israel from the land of the north'” (Jer. 16) .

Moses : This promise will certainly be fulfilled at the coming of Christ.

Peter : It is true that it should have been fulfilled by the coming of Christ. But since it has already been proven that Christ has come, then the prophecy was fulfilled when [665A] he came. Which is to be understood in this way, because we should no longer remember that the Lord brought the children of Israel out of Egypt, yea, out of the land of the north , that is, out of hell, since by the north is meant the devil, whose land and dwelling is hell, as the prophet Joel says: And I will make him far from you, and will drive him into a land that is not passable and desolate, his face toward the eastern sea, and his end toward the uttermost sea, and his stench shall go up, and his putrefaction shall go up, because he has acted proudly (Joel. ii) . And I do not care to explain how we can understand the devil by the north, for this your teachers have sufficiently explained. Moreover, how do you say that you celebrate the Passover, when you neither offer a sacrifice nor an altar, nor have a priest to do it? [665B] For do you think that you can complete the Passover only because of the herbs and unleavened bread that you eat? Nay, you sometimes change the day of Passover itself, and even postpone it until the following day, because you never celebrate it on a day of the Moon, or on a day of Wednesday, or on a day of Friday. Which I would have you explain to me why you do.

Moses : I know nothing else, except that our teachers have so ordered it, and Gamaliel above all.

Peter : And do you know why Gamaliel did this?

Moses : No.

Peter : Gamaliel was indeed a holy and faithful Christian man (Acts 5) . And because he knew that on the day of the Moon the Jews took counsel, by which Christ might be condemned, and on the day of Wednesday the argument was given for the handing over of Christ, and on the day of Friday he was crucified, because, I say, he knew this, and did not wish any joy to be exercised on those days, therefore he forbade the celebration of the Passover on those days (Exod. 12) , and commanded it to be postponed until the following day. But he did not wish to reveal this secret to all.

Moses : After you condemned the festival of the Passover, which precedes and excels all the others, and of which it is commanded that whoever does not observe it shall perish, we would now argue in vain about other lesser ones, since you could condemn them much more lightly. But about the fast of the tenth day of the seventh month (Lev. 23) I demand an answer, which the Lord commanded to be observed to such an extent for the expiation of our sins, that he said that whoever did not observe it would perish from his generation, and your apostles put it aside. [665D]

Peter : First I want you to tell me about that fast, whether it alone is sufficient for anyone for the destruction of sins, or whether someone needs repentance along with it.

Moses : Truly, without repentance there can be no expiation.

Peter : I also ask you the power of that expiation, in which you assert that it is established, either in a day of fasting or in penance?

Moses : In both.

Peter : Also answer: if someone repents after breaking the fast and dies in this way, but another dies in the same way while fasting but not repenting, which of them should be saved rather? [666A]

Moses : He, without a doubt, who did penance.

Peter : Therefore we can affirm that the power of that expiation consists in repentance, not in fasting, as Isaiah testifies and says: Is this a better fast than that which I have chosen? Loose the bonds of wickedness, loose the bands that oppress (Isa. 58) .

Moses : What then is the value of fasting?

Peter : It is indeed the beginning of all good, which is prescribed both to weaken the human body and to restrain it from vices.

Moses : According to your words, whoever fasts on any given day and repents will have forgiveness of sins.

Peter : It is true.

Moses : Why then did God command the day of that fast without [666B] threatening? (Lev. XXIII)

Peter : That on a certain day they should all come together, and fasting, they should do penance.

Moses : And why did your apostles dismiss all this?

Peter : Because Christ came and fulfilled the whole law, and fasted forty days (Matt. 4; Luke 4; Mark 1) , therefore the apostles, namely his disciples, prescribed forty days instead of one, because a fast of forty days is more effective than one, and penance of forty days is more effective than one.

Moses : You have answered about fasting as you pleased. But what will you say about the sacrifices which the Lord commanded to be made of ox, goat and sheep, which your apostles sent besides [666C] , and commanded that the sacrifice be made of bread and wine only.

Peter : All the sacrifices which were commanded and ordained to be made in the law of Moses, were nothing but the figure and signification of the chief sacrifice which was to come, and that the nations might accustom themselves to sacrifices, and by them it might be recognized that, as these customary things wash away sins, so by the greatest sacrifice the greatest sin could be blotted out. But since Christ, namely the Holy of Holies (Dan. 9) , came and was the chief sacrifice, and was immolated for our redemption, it was no longer necessary to make those ancient sacrifices. Therefore, after Christ himself came, we now use that sacrifice, namely bread and wine, which the apostles ordained for us, nay, Christ himself gave (Matt. 26; Mark 14; Luke 22; 1 Cor. 11) . And this sacrifice is similar to that sacrifice which Moses, commanding in the law, called the sacrifice of toda , that is, of praise (Exod. 25; Lev. 2, 7, 24; Num. 28) , and which he commanded of bread and wine only in the figure of ours. Which also David, knowing beforehand that it would come, and despising all the rest before it, says in the Psalm: Shall I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats? Offer to God a sacrifice of praise (Ps. XLIX) . For by this he insinuated that all other sacrifices were to be set aside and that sacrifice which was called praise would be made. And this indeed is our sacrifice of praise. For by making that. We praise God for the benefit [667A] which he has done for us, by saving us through his Son Jesus.

Moses : And what about those meats, you will say, which Moses in the law forbade to be eaten (Lev. 11) , and your Christ also did not eat, but the apostles not only did not forbid them to be eaten, but even they themselves ate them?

Peter : Since all that God made is good, as the Scripture testifies and says: For God saw all that he had made, and, behold, it was very good (Gen. I). And God says to Noah and his sons: Every moving thing that liveth shall be for you for meat, as green herbs I have given you all (Gen. IX) , since both Abraham and Isaac and the rest of the patriarchs, ate all that they desired, even to Moses, and Moses even before he had received the law, why then is the flesh of man forbidden in the law to be eaten ?

Moses : Since at the beginning of the world men were still as it were wild and bestial, they could not so quickly be admonished to obey the commandments of God. The wisdom of God, understanding this, did not wish to give them all the commandments at once, but gradually gave one to Adam, namely, that he should not presume to eat of the fruit which he had forbidden (Gen. 2) , and another to Noah, namely, that he should not eat flesh with blood, and that he should not commit murder (Gen. 9) , but he commanded sacrifices and circumcision to Abraham (Gen. 17) . But when Moses came, and God wished to join the children of Israel to himself, and to distinguish them from other nations, he commanded them his commandments as he pleased, and forbade them from defilement with unclean flesh, but gave them also a sign of discernment between the clean and the unclean (Lev. 11) .

Peter : And this uncleanness which you spoke of flesh, is the body itself, or something which happens to the body?

Moses : Neither, indeed it is a certain spiritual thing, by which it descends into the body, and yet it does not attribute to it any increase or detriment, but it prohibits something which was never prohibited to it before, and in this way it adjoins itself to the body in four ways: first, when it adheres to the body, from its creation, nor does it ever separate from it, as when it comes from the father and mother hereditary, as we see in the pig and other forbidden meats. Second, when it is adjoined to that with which it had not been, but is afterwards not separated, as [667D] is seen in the dead and lepers. Third, when for some supervening cause it is applied to the body, and afterwards for some other reason it is separated, as those who touch a dead person are unclean until they are made clean by sprinkling ashes (Num. 19) . Fourthly, when for some reason it attaches itself to the body and leaves without any work, as those who have handled some dead animal are filthy all day, but at sunset they are somewhat clean without purification (Lev. 11) . But because those flesh were unclean, they were forbidden by Moses, namely, lest they make those who eat them unclean. But also for this reason, as your teachers assert, they were forbidden lest they cause hardness of heart, or dullness of mind, lest they should understand. [668A]

Peter : These two vices, namely, impurity and hardness, formerly befell bodies and flesh, when they were still entangled in general sin, and did not have the fullness of the Holy Spirit. But when Christ came, and through baptism cleansed the bodies of believers, and poured out the fullness of the Holy Spirit, the body of man could no longer be defiled or dulled by any flesh. And this is attested by your teachers, who said that after the coming of Christ it should have been changed from inedible to edible. But this reason can be given for all uncleannesses. But Moses also testifies that the absolution of meats will come after the coming of Christ, speaking to the people of Israel words like these: When the Lord God enlarges your borders, as he has spoken to you, and you desire to eat the flesh [668B] which your soul desires, but the place which the Lord your God will choose to put his name there is too far away, you shall slaughter from your herds and from your works which you have, as he has commanded you, and you shall eat in your towns as you please. As the roebuck and the deer are eaten, so you shall eat of them, both the clean and the unclean shall eat in common (Deut. 12) . For before the coming of Christ the borders of Israel were narrow, because they did not even have the whole land which the Lord had promised them through Moses. But the Lord enlarged the borders of Israel after the coming of Christ, when the apostles preached the law throughout the whole world. But the place which the Lord had chosen to have his name there is now far away, because that ancient temple of the Lord has been destroyed. Therefore, anyone may now eat of all flesh, whether clean or unclean, as he pleases, without any transgression. But what I have said up to this point, O Moses, I have certainly done to satisfy your will. But if I wished to defend myself otherwise, I would certainly say that we have a new law, and that it is in no way contrary to the law of Moses. For of the commandments of the Lord one is not contrary to another, but when the time of one commandment is complete, he gives another commandment, as he pleases, as we see of the commandment which the Lord gave to Noah concerning the eating of flesh (Gen. 9) , because, after Moses came, and the time of that commandment was completed, he gave to Moses himself another commandment concerning flesh, namely, prohibition (Lev. 11) . The time of which was again completed by the coming of Christ, now behold again that ancient commandment which had been given to Noah, namely, concerning the abstinence from flesh, returned. And the Lord indeed said that a prophet should be raised up like Moses, that is, Christ, who should give a new law, namely, just as Moses, as we have said above, promised through Moses himself (Deut. 18) . Again, concerning the new law which he foresaw to come, Isaiah foretold in this manner: It shall be , he says,In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be prepared, in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow to it, and many peoples shall go and say: Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob, and he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths, for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from [669A] Jerusalem (Isa. XI) . For who, O Moses, is this mountain of the Lord? For if you wish to speak of Mount Zion, in which the house of the Lord, namely the temple, was, reason certainly contradicts it, because it is not situated on the top of the mountains, since there are also other hills higher than itself around it, nor can it ever be that it is raised above the hills. What is also that which says: Many peoples shall go and say: Come, let us go up , etc. and he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths, for out of Zion shall go forth the law , etc. For what are those ways of the Lord, and his paths, or the law, which was to go forth from Zion, and the word which was to go forth from Jerusalem? For neither of the law of Moses, which is known to all, would he say, “This will teach us his ways,” nor did that old law go forth from Zion, or rather from Mount Horeb, nor from Jerusalem, but from Sinai , the word of the Lord which Moses announced (Exod. 20; Deut. 5) . Thus, then, prophecy is to be understood. The holy Church is undoubtedly the house of the Lord, but kings are usually compared to mountains and prophets to hills. But the mountain, that is, the King of the holy Church, is Christ, namely, upon whom the Church itself was built, and was prepared on the top of the mountains and was raised above the hills, because He was exalted and honored above all kings and all prophets. And rightly does the prophet say of the Holy Church and Christ: All nations shall flow to him , that is, to Christ, because many from all nations have believed in him, saying: Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord , that is, to Christ, whom the Lord has made King of all, and to the house of the God of Jacob , that is, to the holy Church, and he will teach us his ways , that is, the doctrine of his law, and we will walk in his paths , that is, in the observances of his law, which is new, just as we call new ways paths. But what follows: For the law shall go forth from Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem , insinuates that the law of Christ was to go forth from Zion, and his word from Jerusalem. For in Zion the Holy Spirit came upon the apostles, whose coming was the foundation of the law, and was given by him, and preached by him, and in Jerusalem before elsewhere, both the apostles and Christ himself preached, and from there the preaching went forth throughout the whole world. It is clear therefore that Isaiah prophesied of this new law. Likewise, Jeremiah speaks thus of the new law: Behold, the days are coming ,[669D] saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt (Jer. XXXI) . For where in Latin we find the new covenant , in Hebrew you will find ברית חדשה , berith, hadasa , which is interpreted new law , as Moses testifies, who in many places calls the precepts of his law berith . For Jeremiah himself hints that he spoke of the new law as a new covenant when he says: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt . For here he speaks openly of the covenant, that is, of that law which the Lord gave to Moses in the wilderness after they had left Egypt. [670A]

Moses : We have argued long enough about our law and yours and the alternative alternative, and you have resolved all my objections as you pleased, and I have been able to explain nothing against you. But there is one thing which I have still reserved for you, as it were, in a treasure, which I trust that when I oppose you without a defense, you will be able to overcome, because you will not find anything worth answering against.

Peter : And what is this thing of such strength and vigor, of which you so presume upon yourself, and even threaten me so much?

Moses : What is this that you do against God and all the prophets, namely, that you cut down a certain tree in the forest, and afterwards seek out a carpenter who cuts it, carves it, and shapes it into the likeness of a man, polishes it, and paints it, [670B] and you build that image in your churches, namely in a higher place, and you worship it. Whence also Isaiah says to your rebuke and reproach in these words: The carpenter stretches out a standard, shapes it in a rough piece, makes the image of a man like a handsome man dwelling in a house . And later in the same: They do not consider in their minds, nor do they know, nor do they feel, to say: I have burned half of it in the fire, and baked bread on its coals, I have roasted flesh and eaten it, and with the rest of it I have made an idol? Shall I fall down before a log of wood? Part of it is ashes. A foolish heart worships it, and will not deliver its soul, nor will it say: Perhaps there is a lie in my right hand (Isa. XLIV) .

Peter : It is not as you think. For we neither make idols, nor worship them, but rather we make a cross [670C] and place an image of a man upon it, and by the cross indeed we designate the altar, by the image the sacrifice which is upon the altar. However, just as they sacrificed animals upon the altar, so also upon the cross was the Lamb of God immolated; and just as there was no concern as to what should be done with the remains of the stones with which they built the altar, so we do not care what should be done with the remains of the cross or the image placed upon it. Just as Solomon and others, falling down before the altar, did not at all adore it, but rather God alone. So also, when we bow our knees before the cross, we do not at all adore that cross or the image placed upon it, but rather God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.

Moses : The reason would certainly be what you say, if you had that cross on which the Lamb of God was sacrificed . But now you worship another cross, on which that Lamb was never sacrificed.

Peter : Certainly we cannot have that cross everywhere, therefore it is neither strange nor bad if we make other crosses in its likeness, so that those who have not seen that cross of Christ may at least see others that were made in its likeness, and may remember and understand the sacrifice that was made on it, as also the sons. But the sons of Ruben had built an altar across the Jordan in the likeness of that altar at Jericho, so that their sons and wives, who could not go up, might look upon it, only as a testimony to another and as knowledge, as you will find written in the book of Joshua (Joshua XXII) . [671A]

Moses : God has certainly given you much wisdom, and has enlightened you with many reasons, so that in you there is such an understanding of Scripture that I cannot surpass you, nay, I have nothing to contradict.

Peter : This gift of the Holy Spirit was undoubtedly bestowed by the grace of baptism, which so enlightens our hearts that we do not presume to believe anything false. That [672A] if you yourself also believed what we believe, and were baptized, you would have the same illumination of the Holy Spirit, so that you would both recognize what is true and reject what is false. But now, since I have pity on you, I implore the mercy of God, that he may enlighten you with the fullness of his Spirit, and grant you a better end than the beginning. Amen.

Source. Augsburg University of Applied Sciences – Petrus Alphonsi, Dialogi contra Iudaeos. Patrologiae Latinae PL 157: 535-672 ed.: J. P. Migne, Paris 1855.